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asinghee

Discussion during hearing of complaint.

Question

asinghee

Hello,

1.I filed a complaint with Director Local Bodies (DLB),Rajasthan regarding irregularities in issuing licence under Rajasthan Municipal act in a specific case.

2.DLB forwarded my complaint to Commissioner (HQ),Jaipur Nagar Nigam for necessary action and information to me of action taken.

3.Commissioner( HQ) in turn forwarded the same to Commissioner,Sanganer Zone due to the jurisdiction.

4.Since there was no intimation of action to me, I filed RTI application with Commissioner (HQ) but no reply about action taken on my complaint with DLB.

5.I filed first appeal with FAA and he passed order in my favour but no response to my RTI application. Meanwhile,Commissioner (HQ) transferred file to Commissoner Sanganer Zone.

5.I filed a complaint with SIC .

6.SIC Secretary called both i.e.applicant and PIO for settlement under new procedure called 'Miscellaneous Application'.

6.I attended but no one came from PIO side and few days later I received some papers .

7.Commissioner ,Sanganer Zone, claims that he has not received the papers sent by Commissioner( HQ) and hence there is no information on action taken. He claims to have received other papers under this reference number.

8.Now,hearing has been fixed in next week with SIC.

9.I understand that advocate appearing on their behalf will take the same plea that when no papers have been received by them ,they are under no liability to provide information.

10.How can Commissioner (HQ)be implicated for not acting on the information to him about loss of papers related to complaint under RTI act.

11.Having attended few SIC appeals,I suspect that their advocate will take this plea that no information can be provided for lost documents.

12. For fixing responsibility,file another RTI or complaint.

 

I request honorable moderators to guide me in this matter to fix the responsibility on Commissioner HQ,otherwise for me it will be a lost battle and I will have to start from scratch.

 

Thanks and regards

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Prasad GLN

Can you throw more light on this aspect of calling "applicant and PIO for settlement under new procedure called 'Miscellaneous Application" as the legality of such under RTI Act has to be studied for further guidance.

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MANOJ B. PATEL

This is a strange thing, "applicant and PIO for settlement under new procedure called 'Miscellaneous Application'."

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asinghee

This procedure was started three months back at Rajasthan SIC.Pending complaints are taken under this process and new serial number head Miscellaneous Applicationare given. PIO and complainants are sent notice for meeting at Secretary's office .Two opportunities are given to PIO to provide information. Even then,if the complainant express dissatisfaction,the complaint is posted at SIC's court.

Due to this ,complaints filed in April 2014 have been settled.

 

If honorable moderator want,I will post scan copy of such letter tomorrow.

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RAVEENA_O
10.How can Commissioner (HQ)be implicated for not acting on the information to him about loss of papers related to complaint under RTI act.

 

11.Having attended few SIC appeals,I suspect that their advocate will take this plea that no information can be provided for lost documents.

 

12. For fixing responsibility,file another RTI or complaint.

 

Your right under RTI Act, is to seek and obtain information held by and under the control of public Authority. Loss of grievance papers transferred to Com(HQ) cannot be a cause to file Complaint under Sec-18 of RTI Act before the SIC.

 

Your strong ground in pending complaint is that the CPIO denied information inspite of FAA directives to supply it. CPIO should have taken a decision on your RTI Application and advised the same to you. CPIO did not even comply with the directives of FAA. CPIO therefore contravened the provisions of the Act. Pending complaint be pursued for IC decision.

 

Loss of grievance submitted by you and related issues has no bearing on your RTI Application/ complaint, under which presumably you have sought the action taken. CPIO could have very well advised you that no action is taken (be it for any reason including loss of paper), which would have been a better compliance under RTI Act.

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asinghee

Mam,

Issue now is different. Commissioner HQ forwarded complain to Commissioner Sanganer zone and later denies having received the complaint. Documents supposed to contain my complaint under certain reference number contains some other papers.

Now issue is,where are my complain papers?My experience in such issues is that their advocate will say there is no information available in the records.

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RAVEENA_O

Please don't mix-up your Grievance petition and RTI Complaint.

 

The definition of information, as it occurs in Section 2(f), lays down scope of the type of information an applicant can seek. The underlying idea is clearly that the Applicant’s entitlement for information is only in respect of the categories of information mentioned in Section 2(f) read with Sec.2(i) and (j). It is not open to an applicant to ask, in the guise of seeking information, queries to public authorities about the nature and quality of their actions. The RTI Act also does not cast on public authority any obligation to answer queries. Applicant’s right extends only to seek information as defined in Section 2 (f) & (j) either by pinpointing the file, document, paper, record or sample etc, or by mentioning the type of information as may be available with the specified public authority. RTI Act is also not a tool to settle Grievances.

 

You have filed RTI Application and sought information on action taken on your grievance petition. PIO did not respond. You have filed FA before FAA. FAA directed to supply information. Even then, PIO did not supply information. PIO is wrong in not responding to your RTI Application. You can press for the complaint for the decision of SIC only on this ground.

 

Also remember, as per present scenario, you cannot get relief of supply of information by filing compliant. You can only pray for taking punitive action against PIO by filing complaint. The best course of action on your part was to file Second Appeal before the SIC within 120 days from date of submission of FA, and pray for a direction to supply information.

 

Your other grounds such as your grievance petition transferred / forwarded or not acted upon etc has no bearing on your pending complaint before the SIC.

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asinghee

Thanks. Pl read following

1.My complaint was transferred to another PIO.

2.My RTI application was also transferred to another PIO.

3.Second PIO says since he has not received my complaint papers. इसलिए सुचना शुन्य है।

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RAVEENA_O

If the CPIO has replied सुचना शुन्य है, then there is no infirmity in the decision of PIO. PIO has rightly answered your RTI Applciation that no information is available on record. Therefore, there is no merit in your Complaint.

 

Better you file fresh RTI Application with PIO, who is now custodian of information on your grievance petition.

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asinghee

I understand that I have no right to question PIO .I simply asked for information on action taken on my complaint .Since my complain had far bigger implications, they have manipulated the story in this way.

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asinghee

Thanks for your reply. No PIO will have any information because papers are lost.So,there is no point in filing fresh RTI.

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RAVEENA_O

Then, start everything afresh - submit fresh Grievance Petition by Speed /Regd Post Ack due to the correct and proper office (endorsing copy to higher officers for intervention) and follow it up with RTI Application after a month or so.

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karira
This procedure was started three months back at Rajasthan SIC.Pending complaints are taken under this process and new serial number head Miscellaneous Applicationare given. PIO and complainants are sent notice for meeting at Secretary's office .Two opportunities are given to PIO to provide information. Even then,if the complainant express dissatisfaction,the complaint is posted at SIC's court.

Due to this ,complaints filed in April 2014 have been settled.

 

If honorable moderator want,I will post scan copy of such letter tomorrow.

 

Please post a copy of that letter.

 

The Secretary of the SIC has no powers to decide cases under RTI !

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genius786

I want to see my final exam answer sheet, is rti is useful for me.

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Prasad GLN

If the exams are over and results are announced, you can within prescribed time fixed by examining body can file application seeking copy of answer sheet and pay fees prescribed for each subject. (there is prescsribed period for retention of answer sheets) The fees are different from prescribed RTI fees. If the body prescribed any form for providing copy of such answer sheet you may apply through that prescsribed format. Search such examining body's website for more information.

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genius786

If university don't show my answer sheets than what I'm doing

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asinghee

Karira Sir,

Pl find attached letters and notice as desired.

Regards.

1424761548503.jpg

1424761578606.jpg

1424761633863.jpg

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asinghee

Karira sir,

Pl find attached:

1.RTI application

2.The letter from DLB on which action is required

3.The letter from Commissioner Sanganer Zone replied that he has not received the complaint forwarded by Commissioner HQ. Therefore, information is NIL.

Now, I have to attend SIC hearing on 02 march.

I will appreciate if you can suggest some logic where PIO can be implicated. Otherwise ,I will loose the case.

1424762770551.jpg

1424762795656.jpg

1424762817757.jpg

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asinghee

Sir,

I had filed an RTI with Commissioner HQ which was transferred to Commissioner Sanganer zone who has replied that information is NIL because said complain was never received by him.

Can I insist before SIC that this reply should have been given by the PIO i.e Commissioner HQ with whom I have filed RTI.

If SIC accepts my plea,things will be much easier for me in implicating Commissioner HQ in next round of RTI.

Pl advise.

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Prasad GLN

The correct process is filing RTI Application afresh with that authority with whom a complaint was made earlier.

Do not drag these to SIC as time, energy and expenses are involved in the second appeal order process.

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asinghee

Sir,

SIC hearing is on 03 march 2015.

I will seek your valuable advise on new filling later on.

Immediate requirement is for argument in next week before SIC.

I need your advise on my post no.19 .

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Prasad GLN

Unless full details are available, how can you expect guidance from members. Please tabulate information as follows and post. (Point wise - no need of providing name of PIO etc.,)

_________________________________________________________________________

Solicited by Applicant.......Provided by PIO......Reasons for disagreement.....

On....................-------------on-------------------

______1______________________2_________________3________________________

 

1

2

3

_______________________________________________________

 

Please also note this statement helps you in Arguments before SIC and for written submissions also.

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asinghee

Sir,

I have posted all detail in my post no.1.

If still there is ambiguity , I will scan all papers and post.

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Prasad GLN

During hearing, you have to focus on main points of dispute. Neither your IC nor members can read all the points and figure it out. The post should be brief, precise and upto the point while presenting your arguments before IC. As our Hon.Karira has posted, even if you write Gabbar Singh's dialogue in Sholay as your second appeal, IC will not read. Point to point discussion is necessary.

(Please do not scan and post all the papers, as very few members have the time to read and prepare essence out of it)

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asinghee

Thank you sir.

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Prasad GLN

Just try and find it out how the single sheet helps you in argument.

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