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SandB

Wife-asking-for-Husband's Service Book

Question

SandB

Dear All,

 

Please let me know if Wife can ask for Husband's Service Book and please let me know what are the RTI Case Laws that I can quote when asking for the same.

 

What are the enclosures/photocopies that one has to submit along with RTI application to show that she is the wife of so and so husband whose service book is sought.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

S and B.

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SandB
Dear member, Please go through some earlier discussions in the thread on the following link:

 

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/20754-service-books-government-servants-eligible-issued-under-2.html?highlight=service+book

 

Dear Sir,

 

When requesting the copy of service book through RTI, do one need to mention the reason why they are in need of a Certified copy of Service Book??

 

Thanks in advance.

 

S and B.

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MANOJ B. PATEL

No, you are not supposed to mention the reason for filing RTI application.

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RAVEENA_O

Service Book contain personal information of an individual employee and hence exempted from disclosure under Section-8(1)(j) of RTI Act. Disclosure of such personal information shall be subject to third party procedures (Section-11) and on satisfaction of larger public interest in disclosure of such information by the Public Information Officer / Appellate Authority.

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MANOJ B. PATEL

With permission, i reproduce guidance provided by Hon'ble taurus sir and Hon'ble karira sir in similar thread on 24.1.08.

 

***It all depends on how you define service record. If by service record you mean service book, then in my opinion, it can be disclosed because it is only a chronological record of events happening in an employees career like appointment, increment, promotion, penalties etc. It also has his name, date of birth permanent address etc. None of this exempted by any section of the RTI. As long as one is a govt employee all these particulars are to be disclosed in public interest. If by service record you mean the personal file, where the nominations and other details of family members are kept, it involves the right and privacy of persons other than the public servant and hence cannot be disclosed without their consent. This will fall under the exemptions provided in the Act.

 

***A Government employees Service Records are generally allowed to be disclosed. It depends on the facts of the case and how it is argued out.

 

There are at least 10 pages of CIC decisions on Service Records and a majority of them allow disclosure.

Just visit CIC and do a search for "service records".

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RAVEENA_O

That was the position of law in 2008. The Hon'ble Supreme Court interpreted the term "personal information" as reflected in Section-8(1)(j) of RTI Act, in the case of Girish Deshpande Vs CIC decided on Oct-3, 2012.

 

The question whether the Central Information Commissioner acting under the Right to Information Act, 2005 was right in denying information regarding the personal matters pertaining to service career on the ground that the information sought for was qualified to be “personal information” as defined in clause (j) of Section 8(1) of the RTI Act, came up before the Hon'ble Supreme Court of India in the case of Girish Deshpande Vs CIC. In that case, CIC had held that the information which has been denied to the appellant essentially falls in two parts – (i) relating to the personal matters pertaining to service career; and (ii) Shri Lute’s assets and liabilities, movable and immovable properties and other financial aspects and further held that this information qualifies to be the ‘personal information’ as defined in clause (j) of Section 8(1) of the RTI Act and the appellant has not been able to convince the Commission that disclosure thereof is in larger public interest.

 

Said decision of CIC was challenged before the Hon'ble Supreme Court of India. Hon'ble Supreme Court, while dismissing the said petition vide order dt: 03/10/2012 held that the performance of an employee/officer in an organization is primarily a matter between the employee and the employer and normally those aspects are governed by the service rules which fall under the expression “personal information”, the disclosure of which has no relationship to any public activity or public interest. On the other hand, the disclosure of which would cause unwarranted invasion of privacy of that individual. Of course, in a given case, if the Central Public Information Officer or the State Public Information Officer or the Appellate Authority is satisfied that the larger public interest justifies the disclosure of such information, appropriate orders could be passed, but the petitioner cannot claim those details as a matter of right. It was further held by the Hon'ble Supreme Court that the petitioner in the referred case has not made a bona fide public interest in seeking information, the disclosure of such information would cause unwarranted invasion of privacy of the individual under Section 8(1)(j) of the RTI Act.

 

It is pertinent to note that the Learned counsel for Petitioner made submissions before the Hon'ble Supreme Court that the privacy appended to Section 8(1)(j) of the RTI Act widens the scope of documents warranting disclosure and if those provisions are properly interpreted, it could not be said that documents pertaining to employment of a person holding the post of enforcement officer could be treated as documents having no relationship to any public activity or interest. It is under these contentions and prayer that the Hon'ble Supreme Court interpreted the scope of the term 'Personal Information' in above judgment.

 

The interpretation made by the Apex Court is binding. If the RTI Applicant has not brought out any larger public interest in seeking disclosure of such personal information, the PIO shall not be required to supply the information, since exempted under Section-8(1)(j) being personal information and it has no relationship to any public activity or interest. Even when the Applicant show some public interest in seeking the information, it is for the Public Information Officer to satisfy himself whether larger public interest justify to supply the information or otherwise

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MANOJ B. PATEL

R/Madam,

I agree with you. The interpretation made by the Apex Court is binding. If the RTI Applicant has not brought out any larger public interest in seeking disclosure of such personal information, the PIO shall not be required to supply the information, since exempted under Section-8(1)(j) being personal information and it has no relationship to any public activity or interest. Even when the Applicant show some public interest in seeking the information, it is for the Public Information Officer to satisfy himself whether larger public interest justify to supply the information or otherwise.

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karira

@SandB

 

What is the "information" in the service book that you are interested to get ?

 

Think of other ways to get the same information without actually asking for the "service book".

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SandB
@SandB

 

What is the "information" in the service book that you are interested to get ?

 

Think of other ways to get the same information without actually asking for the "service book".

 

 

To be frank, Husband's pension was not yet sanctioned as his Service Record is not clear. He is retired in the year 2008. So, if it gets cleared, he will get all the pension amount as arrears, which will be nearly Rs. 10 Lacs.

 

Due to some reasons, wife and husband have been separated and the husband is living with other woman.

 

So, now the Wife wants to know whether he has included her name and children's names or did he include any other person's name.

 

Thanks in advance.

S and B

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karira

If they are separated, then there is no chance to get such info under RTI.

 

Best is to approach court, after the pension is disbursed and get the court to get all details.

 

Check with a competent lawyer.

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Prasad GLN

Instead of service book, why you should not confine to single point information if you are not legally separated./you can also get application filed through his children even when they are minors as they are affected parties.

 

"Please provide the name of the Nominee for pension of......................and the applicant is filing the photo identity showing that she is wife of pensioner"

 

Try. Either you will get information or denial for just Rs.32/- (RTI fee Rs.10 + Registration Rs.22/-) and still there are alternatives.

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RAVEENA_O

There is a combined nomination form for PF, DCRG, GIS and Pension. When there are subsequent developments or events, the employee can change it. The form also contain an attribute - condition for cessation or change in nomination. E.g a bachelor employee may nominate parents or brothers/sisters as nominees and put the cessation/change as "marriage". Such a nomination is valid only upto his marriage. Immediately after the marriage, he may make fresh nomination.

 

When the employee in this case got separated from his legally wedded wife and started living with another woman, there is no reason for him to maintain original nomination or not to change earlier nomination.

 

Secondly, the employee retired in 2008. The RRS of Service Record and Personal File is only 5 years after cessation from employment, unless there are pendency of court / SPE cases. There is possibility that he might have already filled in pension papers and may be getting provisional pension since he retired in 2008.

 

Thirdly, since employee retired from service, nomination has no validity, but employee himself would receive all retirement benefits personally and he has to open pension account along with his spouse for receiving family pension after his death. He can avoid to nominate anybody for family pension also.

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SandB

Dear All,

 

Thank you for all your suggestions and information/guidance provided.

 

Actually, it is not very clear that he got a divorce decree. Hence, Wife applied for Husband's service book mentioning that she wanted to know the details of nominees and also requested a certified copy of his service book.

 

Hence, waiting for the reply from the office authorities and I will be happy to share whatever the response that is shown from the PIO.

 

Thanks again.

 

SandB

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Prasad GLN

RTI Application was already filed, there is still time to spend by PIO, why you require 14 posts/replies when you are anticipating some outcome and before you have any clarity on the issue ?

What is your exact requirement and what can you do with guidance with 14 replies while application was pending ?

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SandB
The RRS of Service Record and Personal File is only 5 years after cessation from employment, unless there are pendency of court / SPE cases. There is possibility that he might have already filled in pension papers and may be getting provisional pension since he retired in 2008.

 

Thirdly, since employee retired from service, nomination has no validity, but employee himself would receive all retirement benefits personally and he has to open pension account along with his spouse for receiving family pension after his death. He can avoid to nominate anybody for family pension also.

 

Hi Madam,

 

Of course, you are right, but when Son requested Father's pension details and other emoluments and last drawn salary through RTI, PIO responded clearly mentioning that Pension is still not granted as service record is not regular/clear and Father is still in the process of clearing the service record.

 

So, when it is clearly given by the PIO that pension has not been granted, how can say that father is taking provisional pension. Please clarify.

 

Any way, now Wife has applied through RTI asking to provide the info like nominees details in the service book and also certified copy of service book, for which the response is awaited.

 

The department from which the information sought is TPNPDCL.

 

Thanks in advance.

SandB

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SandB

Dear All,

 

After applying through RTI for nominees details and a copy of service book by wife, got a reply from PIO stating that "sought information is not available as the service book is returned for attending remarks and a certified copy of service book is not available as the service book is returned for attending remarks."

 

Dear members, please let me know what does this mean and what to do further.

 

Thanks in advance.

SandA

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Prasad GLN

Apply and seek information the authority to whom service book was returned to so that you can apply to that authority (Further two applications may be necessary)

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SandB
Apply and seek information the authority to whom service book was returned to so that you can apply to that authority (Further two applications may be necessary)

 

Shall I call on phone and seek the information with whom the service book is?

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Prasad GLN

Choice is yours. Beg, borrow or steal is the principle. Phone, oral and RTI are the principles for information. Personally I feel that no one answers in phone, go and get the information orally on your visit.

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SandB

Hello All,

 

For the second time, I got the reply from PIO stating that " A certified copy of service book is not available as the service book is returned to Circle Office along with pension proposals for sanction of pension. Hence unable to give xerox copies and service book.

 

In this regard, kindly let me know what can be done again.....thanks in advance...

 

SandB

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Prasad GLN

If I remember well, you have been advised to file Fresh RTI to that PA (circle Office) who is at present holding the Service book and seek certified copy, with a copy of letter received from present PIO.

Simply I do not understand as to why PIO has not forwarded the application under Sec 6 (3) and what prevented him in seeking a certified copy himself from concerned circle office.

However as the process has started, file fresh RTI directly to Circle PIO and also file first appeal that PIO has failed either to secure information from circle office and also not forwarded RTI Application and slept over the matter,, and returning application stating an absurd reason that they can not provide xerox copies even when there are ways in procuring from Circle office or forwarding within 5 days of receipt of RTI to Circle office.

Pray in the first appeal as PIO has not followed prescribed procedure, he is under obligation to get such copy from concerned circle office and should provide it to Applicant, as there is no way an applicant can find where service book is available at that point of time.

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MANOJ B. PATEL

Because these PIOs are out of control and i always write why such defaulter PIOs are not punished by the SICs/CIC.

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SandB

Pray in the first appeal as PIO has not followed prescribed procedure, he is under obligation to get such copy from concerned circle office and should provide it to Applicant, as there is no way an applicant can find where service book is available at that point of time.

 

Dear Sir,

 

Thank you for the assistance and information provided by you so far sir.

 

Further, please let me know to whom the first appeal should be made...is it to be made to TSNPDCL or to Information Commission of Telangana. I am ready with all drafts to circle office as well as text to be sent as first appeal and I would be grateful to you sir, if you could give me the address for first appeal to be made.

 

Please give information of RTI fee appicable for first appeal to be made and the format of first appeal.

 

Thanks in advance

 

SandB

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Prasad GLN

Please read the entire reply as step by step procedure was explained.

Remember that First Appeal under RTI is against PIO to his superior officer designated as First Appellate Authority.

So first appeal to the PIO who refused service book saying now that it is with Circle Office, though he can himself obtain a copy or ought to have transferred it to that circle office the original application.

Fresh application is to Circle office.

The last and final resort is to Information commission, as second appeal, if all our efforts to get the information in lower levels within such time frame fails, and in other words only after hearing from FAA we can proceed to IC.

(Please understand the problem in making so many posts, as we may forget what was stated in earlier posts in three pages coming to the last reply. Though you have received FAA orders from the first PIO, file first appeal writing it as Addendum to first appeal, as some how or other it is always better to sort out information from PA instead of going for time/money consuming second appeal)

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