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zafar123

Accounts and Audit Report from Last 15 Years from Wakf Boards

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zafar123

Hello,

I have Filed a RTI Application Seeking Accounts and Audit Report from Last 15 Years from PIO of Wakf Boards - the Managing Committee of the Wakf Institution Orally Refusing to Give Information by saying the Documents are very old that may are lost or destroyed. what will be the solution for this situation.

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MANOJ B. PATEL

Dear member,

PIO can not refuse orally and that is not valid also. If 35 days are completed and you are not provided required information or any reply kindly file first appeal in time limit by referring following link.

 

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/attachments/blogs/attachment4141d1307010250-first-appeal-non-reply-rti-application-fa-4-no-reply-doc

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RAVEENA_O

PIO is required to take a decision on your RTI Application within 30 days of its submission either to supply the information on payment of further fee or deny it for any of the reasons in Section-8(1) or Sec-9. Wait for 35 days ( 5 days for postal transit) from date of submission of application to PIO and thereafter file First Appeal before FAA.

 

Please revert back on this thread on getting PIO's reply or after 35 days (in case of no reply) for further advice in drafting First Appeal.

 

Also read:

 

HOW TO FILE FIRST APPEAL

 

FIRST APPEAL FOR NO REPLY

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zafar123

Thanks Sir,

and what about the Old Records, and their claim that that have been lost or destroyed ?

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MANOJ B. PATEL

If record is missing then authority is supposed to file FIR and if record is destroyed legally as retention period is over it is not possible to provide information.

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zafar123

Can Applicant (RTI Activist) file FIR against PIO.

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RAVEENA_O

No, you can't file FIR. Please wait for the written reply from the PIO. The question of FIR etc arises only when the PIO commit such statements whether record lost or destroyed etc. You don't need to file FIR.

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MANOJ B. PATEL

R/Zafar sab,

 

SIC/CIC can direct the PIO to file FIR in such matter while deciding second appeal.

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RAVEENA_O

There is no compulsion on SIC / CIC to give such a direction and at this stage, we cannot predict as to what decision the Information Commission will give. It is better you wait for FAA's decision and revert back to us for further guidance.

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MANOJ B. PATEL

There are decisions of CIC that in case of Record is missing public authority/PIO must file a FIR.

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RAVEENA_O

Unless proved that record was destroyed as per the prescribed rules of destruction/ retention policy, it is deemed that record continues to be held by public authority. Claim of file “missing” or “not traceable” has no legality as it is not recognized as exception by RTI Act. By practice ‘missing file’

cannot be read into as exception in addition to exceptions prescribed by RTI Act. It amounts to breach of Public Records Act, 1993 and punishable with imprisonment up to a term of five years or with fine or both. Public Authority has a duty to initiate action for this kind of loss of public record, in the form of ‘not traceable’ or ‘missing’. The Public Authority also has a duty to designate an officer as Records Officer and protect the records. A thorough search for the file, inquiry to find out public servant responsible, disciplinary action and action under Public Records Act, reconstruction of alternative file, relief to the person affected by the loss of file are the basic actions the Public Authority is legitimately expected to perform.

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karira

Also ask someone else....from another city to file another RTI application with the PIO of the same wakf board and ask for:

 

1. Record retention period in your Wakf Board for:

 

a) Recruitment related records

b) Employee related records

c) Financial records

d) Budget preparation, estimates and expenditure records

e) Accounting and auditing records

f) Property and estate records

g) Administration records

etc etc

 

(Just add some few other points - in order to "mask" the actual item you are interested in)

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Sunil Ahya

Kindly do not go by oral submissions of a PIO, let him give a written response that the requested information / documents are missing / untraceable, and then file a first appeal accordingly.

 

Also please remember that if the PIO does not give any written response within 30 days (add 5 to 10 days for postal transit time) then as per section 7(2) of the RTI Act it is considered as a deemed denial to provide the information,

 

And as such you need to file a first appeal under both the circumstances i.e. (1) The PIO provides a written response that the records are missing / untraceable (2) The PIO provides no written response at all.

 

Please refer to the provision of section 7(2) quoted below:

 

Section 7(2) - If the Central Public Information Officer or State Public Information Officer, as the case may be, fails to give decision on the request for information within the period specified under sub-section (1), the Central Public Information Officer or State Public Information Officer, as the case may be, shall be deemed to have refused the request.

 

Also file another RTI application as R / Kariraji has suggested.

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jps50

If board has given in writing that record is destroyed or missing then refer:

 

lost/missing records:

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/blogs/jps50/172-missing-untraceable-records.html

https://app.box.com/s/hoxti66i4pce73haqpsx

 

Destroyed Record:

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/blogs/jps50/3595-destroyed-record.html

https://app.box.com/s/648yo5slggamge3wwx2w

 

and attached CIC order.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

If you have not received reply within 40 days of your mailing RTI application including 10 days postal time then file first appeal by referring:

 

First Appeal for no reply to RTI application:

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/blogs/jps50/1877-first-appeal-non-reply-rti-application.html

https://app.box.com/s/m4sbg875an2zv70xg8ve

MISSING RECORDS 290814 IMP.pdf

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zafar123

Thanks to All...

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Krishna nlr

if you get the reply saying anything like destroyed then ask them the retention policy of the files for the respective department and if not over the retention period, then they should re-create your documents and send it to you.

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jaysinh2

Filed RTI to state revenue department to obtain land records of 1950 of my village they replied records are too old and not available at office but i have a doubt please guide, how to ask if records were destroyed or transfered to any other department etc???

what options do i have?

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zafar123

Hello,

After 2 years, and a 2nd appeal directions from CIC to provide the required information as per RTI Applications, Now PIO and a President of Waqf Institution replies that the documents are not available in Office, kindly help by giving the procedure to file the Suit in High court or any other actions to be taken agianst the PIO .

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Prasad GLN

There is a prescribed format for making a complaint on non compliance of CIC decision.

Your CPIO might have not raised this issue before hearing by IC.

Now he can not raise this plea afresh, whereas he is supposed to state the same as response to your RTI Application long back.

CIC may order for inquiry and fix up responsibility and may direct CPIO to get that information and provide to you.

Before going to writ before HC which is expensive and time consuming, you give a try to non compliance complaint.

Make a copy of such letter to CPIO. Specifically state and enclose his response to your RTI and copy of CIC decision for immediate reference to CIC.

 

Also prolong the issue at CPIO level and file through RTI Application and seek information as follows:

Information solicited:

1.Please provide the custodian of the information with whom the records for following information is available. (State information solicited earlier.

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zafar123
There is a prescribed format for making a complaint on non compliance of CIC decision.

Your CPIO might have not raised this issue before hearing by IC.

Now he can not raise this plea afresh, whereas he is supposed to state the same as response to your RTI Application long back.

CIC may order for inquiry and fix up responsibility and may direct CPIO to get that information and provide to you.

Before going to writ before HC which is expensive and time consuming, you give a try to non compliance complaint.

Make a copy of such letter to CPIO. Specifically state and enclose his response to your RTI and copy of CIC decision for immediate reference to CIC.

 

Also prolong the issue at CPIO level and file through RTI Application and seek information as follows:

Information solicited:

1.Please provide the custodian of the information with whom the records for following information is available. (State information solicited earlier.

Sir

At present situation a order is pending before the CIC Bangalore and during the hearing CIC directed PIO to gather the Required information and provide to applicant. NOW PIO is replied that the documents are not available in office. So it is unable to Provide.

 

Sent from my SM-G7102 using RTI INDIA mobile app

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zafar123
There is no compulsion on SIC / CIC to give such a direction and at this stage, we cannot predict as to what decision the Information Commission will give. It is better you wait for FAA's decision and revert back to us for further guidance.

Hi

After the period of 2 years During the hearing of 2nd Appeal IC directs PIO to collect the information and Provide to Applicant.Then PIO Replied The document are Not available in Office. Now What action should i take .

 

Sent from my SM-G7102 using RTI INDIA mobile app

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Prasad GLN

You are fortunate as KSIC is most pro active and powerful. Pray for inquiry into the incident and pray for directions to file for filing of affidavit of the PIO and for contemplating action for missing documents and for reconstruction of the file. Please also read the blog missing documents.

Use all opportunities at lower levels in SIC itself, and you should have an impression that PIO is suppressing material facts deliberately and with malafide motives.

Do your duty and as suggested file RTI Application and find out as to who is the actual custodian information.

 

(When there is only one reply there is no point in copy and paste of the only reply, as this is continuous process and just post what you wish to state. The brief the post, it catches the attention of members more)

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Prasad GLN

Your first post was dated 9-7-2015. and latest post is after 2 1/2 years at 9.14 pm. to day quoting Super Moderator's quote dt..9-7-15 and to my knowledge the SIC is fair enough and left the issue still open for you to continue the process as complaint.

 

It appears that you have posted the same in another thread and that is having attention and replies are provided on such non compliance.

Please do not post further contents in this old thread, as to read all the posts, and make out the real issue for continuity is a huge task, and members must devote atleast one hour to understand the entire issue.

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RAVEENA_O

Two situations are involved. (1) document is not required to be maintained by the office and not held by the public authority; (2) document is required to be maintained under statutory provisions, instructions or orders or directions etc by the public authority, but the same is now not available.

 

IN the former situation, there is no scope in furthering the matter even before HC.

 

In the later situation, the public authority acting through it's officers and staff obstructed in supply of information. Take an assessment of the statutory provisions or administrative orders making it mandatory to maintain those records and thereafter approach a good lawyer and proceed with his expert advice.

 

However, immediately file a fresh RTI Application giving reference and details of the RTI proceedings culminated to SIC order and seek fresh information as listed in our sample RTI request in below link:

>> RTI Application for Missing File or Record [Right to Information Wiki]

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