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k.manikyam

RTI TO SRO,MRO, MUNICIPALITY FOR LAND PATTA COPY.

Question

k.manikyam

I filed RTI application to pio of SRO Office to provide the patta copy of land in the year of 2005 SRO had done registration to a document , based on patta copy of land as link document.

 

I asked to provide the certified copy of patta for above mentioned land registration had done on baSed on patta copy of land as link document.

 

I got reply from pio of SRO Office he said no information is available at SRO Office.

After getting reply from pio i asked to him you had done registration you don't have any Xerox copy of patta he said I can give certified copies of above mentioned registered document but I don't have patta copy of land , if you want to search the records you can search it he said.

 

Please guide me what can I do ,

Actually patta holder is my father on RTI application clearly i mentioned it.

 

1. Can i file a RTI application from my friend side on above subject.Does pio have a chance to deny the information on RTI section 8(J).

 

2. And also pio said to me he can maintain only certified copies of registered documents but he can't maintain link document or supporting any land patta is it correct sir.

 

3.My sisters had land patta but they cannot give to me and my brother's that's why I filed RTI application. we do not have Xerox copy also.

 

4. Again i sent RTI application to pio of Municipality and asked to provide the information and certified copy of land patta with the help of that property tax mutation had done .

 

Document required for property tax mutation;-

One registered document and link document or patta copy .

I cannot get any reply from pio again i filed first appeal and I got reply without hearing notice , faa had said we cannot provide to you Xerox or certified patta copy you can have it from concerned mro office.

 

Please guide me what can I do .

 

5.i filed RTI to pio and faa of mro office, i attended first appeal also both of them said they can not have patta copy or any information related to the patta which was issued in the year of 1983.

 

What can I do please guide me .

 

Thanking you

 

 

 

 

Sent from my Redmi 5A using RTI INDIA mobile app

 

 

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Sunil Ahya

From what I understand, whenever a particular document is registered, all the documents on the basis of which the particular document is registered are annexed to it.

Therefore when you obtain a copy of the particular registered document, the other documents annexed to it should have all the details on the basis of which the particular document has been registered.

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Prasad GLN

Mr.Manikyam,

First focus on the issue.

RTI is not a solution for all.  You know the volume of documents in such Govt offices and to find a document they have to search for several hours in case of old documents.

You have some disputes in the family, and you wanted a copy of patta.  There may be well wishers or relatives in your family, as other siblings are having a copy, use their influence and get  copy from them.

When officials are willing for allowing to inspect their records, pay to some expert some fee, let him search the records and get a copy of patta, there ends the matter.

Applications by you, later your friend etc., are not going to yield any result and even make you irritant applicant.

If Municipality is having those documents at the time of mutation, niether PIO or FAA of municipality can deny such information.  Go for second appeal as no one can reject any documents under RTI but can only deny information stating such exemption under RTI with justification.   But in your case, Municipality have given you fair opportunity of hearing, explained you the facts and by not delivering copy of patta, they are not going to get any benefit. If the information is not really available you can not get it. 

There are many ways to get that patta if it is really available unofficially.  Definitely if PIO is not willing to provide any document, you can never get such documents, and if you are lucky, you may get it only after going for second appeal and after two years.

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k.manikyam
From what I understand, whenever a particular document is registered, all the documents on the basis of which the particular document is registered are annexed to it.

Therefore when you obtain a copy of the particular registered document, the other documents annexed to it should have all the details on the basis of which the particular document has been registered.

Thanks for your reply Sir,

 

SRO staff had said to me they can maintain only certified copies of present document and but they cannot maintain certified copies of link document, if the link document is registered you can get the certified copies of link document , if the link document is not registered like patta copy and notarized document at concerned SRO, you cannot get the certified copies of link document.

 

 

if the link document is not registered either they cannot maintain the link document copy as certified copy (patta land and notarized document).

 

This question i asked to staff of SRO they said not only our SRO office entire state SRO OFFICES cannot maintain link document either which is registered or not , depend on your luck if the link document is registered you can get certified COPY. If the link document is not registered you need to do hard home work from your side.

 

Note ; At present registered document they can maintain and attach present proofs only they cannot attach link document either registered or not registered, i have get certified copies from SRO(SUB REGISTRAR OFFICE) office not only one document and every documents like this only.

 

Here there is chance to do fake registration for example pahani is in the name of 'A', and 'B' had done sale registered deed document to 'C' for above-mentioned land.In future 'A' will surprise about his land he can go and get the certified copies of present document , he will want to know how SRO had done present registered deed on with supporting proof.He will not get link document certified copy(patta copy or any unregistered document copy) finally case goes on court , after long years case will decide and here real owner land bears mental pressure and loss of money etc...

 

Thanking you...

 

 

 

 

 

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Sunil Ahya

Have you obtained a certified copy of the registered document?

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k.manikyam

Sir,

Yes I have applied and I got it at certified document there is no attached paper related to link document(patta copy).

 

For confirmation i again i have applied certified copy of my personal document copy at that certified copy also i had present document papers only and not have any link document paper attached .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Prasad GLN

As far as I know, Registration officials (in AP) are not concerned with title.  They register any document and collection of Fees and registration as per proper procedure is only their duty.  They are not concerned with ownership.

That is the reason, Land grabbers employ persons to identify those houses that are locked, those who are having problems, those innocent persons who can not fight, and some one will register the property saying some thing.

Neither Criminal nor Civil cases can be decided within 10 years.  To be honest, every one is hand in glove including politicians.

 

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k.manikyam

Sir,

Without survey number also SRO has been doing the registration in AP and Telangana.

 

So many doubts will rise without survey number a document has done registration either it is govt.land and patta copy, restricted land etc...

 

If we want to expose what do we need to do sir.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Prasad GLN

State Govt has come to know of such misdeeds by Revenue officials and they are creating a webland.  They  have arranged  village meets updating their records on the basis of spot checking, if the owners are having an agreement in ordinary Rs.5 stamp paper,l they are registering and checking the tax paid receipts etc.  It is the owners problem and owner should tackle it with concerned Municipality or authority and lot of investigation work is needed.

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k.manikyam

Ok sir..

 

Thanks for your reply...

 

 

 

 

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Sunil Ahya

Just check the Registration Rules of your particular State, for example, following is the provision in Maharashtra Registration Rules, 1961:

Quote

 

Maharashtra Registration Rules, 1961

Rule 44. Certain requirements to be. verified before accepting a document for registration.-

(1) Before accepting any document for registration, a registering officer may not concern himself with its validity, but shall ascertain -

(a) that it is properly stamped;

(b) that it is presented within the prescribed time, and in the proper office;

(c) that it was presented by a competent person;

(d) if it relates to immovable property, that it is not open to objection under section 21 or 22;

(e) if any document is in a language which he does not understand, that the provisions of section 19 are complied with ;

(f) that any interlineations, blanks, erasures or alterations appearing in the document are attested by the signature or initials of the person or persons executing the same as required by section 20;

(g) that the dates of execution of the document, if written according to more than one calendar, tally with each other; and (h) that the registration of such document has not been declared as opposed to public policy under section 22 -A.

 

 

 

 

Following are the Section 21 and 22 of Indian Registration Act, 1908:

Quote

 

Indian Registration Act, 1908:

Section 21. Description of property and maps or plans

(1) No non-testamentary document relating to immovable property shall be accepted for registration unless it contains a description of such property sufficient to identify the same.

(2) Houses in towns shall be described as situate on the north or other side of the street or road (which should be specified) to which they front, and by their existing and former occupancies, and by their numbers if the houses in such street or road are numbered.

(3) Other houses and land shall be described by their name, if any, and as being the territorial division in which they are situate, and by their superficial contents, the roads and other properties on which they abut, and their existing occupancies, and also, whenever it is practicable, by reference to a government map or survey.

(4) No non-testamentary document containing a map or plan of any property comprised therein shall be accepted for registration unless it is accompanied by a true copy of the map or plan, or, in case such property is situate in several districts, by such number of true copies of the map or plans as are equal to the number of such districts.

Section 22. Description of houses and land by reference to government maps of surveys

(1) Where it is, in the opinion of the State Government, practicable to describe houses, not being houses in towns, and lands by reference to a government map or survey, the State Government may, by rule made under this Act, require that such houses and lands as aforesaid shall, for the purposes of section 21, be so described.

(2) Save as otherwise provided by any rule made under sub-section (1), failure to comply with the provisions of section 21, sub-section (2) or sub-section (3), shall not disentitle a document to be registered if the description of the property to which it relates is sufficient to identify that property.

 

 

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Prasad GLN

 

There is not much difference or additions of a new clauses in other states also

The essence is that SR is not bothered about link documents.

Now the additions are that seller must be identified.

Duplicate AADHARs were generated to register in i many cases.  Impersonation is common.

The system keeps a track of all government lands with such survey numbers and refuses to accept registration.

Now AP govt is bringing out stopping registration or even cancelling if there is impersonation or  fraud apparent records produced befoe them.

I am still doubtful if they can bring such legislation as courts are only having such powers.

As it is , Govt learnt of their mistakes, plugging all such leaks, making SRs accountable, in our District alone, they have taken against 5 such Registrars.

 

 

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k.manikyam
 
There is not much difference or additions of a new clauses in other states also
The essence is that SR is not bothered about link documents.
Now the additions are that seller must be identified.
Duplicate AADHARs were generated to register in i many cases.  Impersonation is common.
The system keeps a track of all government lands with such survey numbers and refuses to accept registration.
Now AP govt is bringing out stopping registration or even cancelling if there is impersonation or  fraud apparent records produced befoe them.
I am still doubtful if they can bring such legislation as courts are only having such powers.
As it is , Govt learnt of their mistakes, plugging all such leaks, making SRs accountable, in our District alone, they have taken against 5 such Registrars.
 
 
1. I think it can be solve through PIL application of concerned state High court ,HON'BLE HIGH COURT with their orders i hope SRO will strictly follow rules and regulations as per prescribed by act and also judgement order of Honorable high court of PIL.

2. May i know, what is the time duration to get the PIL Order from Honorable high court. If we filed PIL .

3. PIL Application goes and adjourns like regular case or we can get early results for PIL compare to other regular court cases.

4. And also can we file a complaint against SRO at lokayukta of concerned state.Is it possible to file the complaint and also Honorable lokayukta has the power to punish the SRO, cancel the registration, which had done without survey number and also without following the the act.

Sent from my Redmi 5A using RTI INDIA mobile app

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Prasad GLN

There is strict discipline that member should post only relevant points to the thread.

You are hijacking the thread to PIL and later to Loayukta not related to RTI.

About PIL, do not expect that heavens fall on PIL, even Hon CJ Karira faced problems in filing PIL and instead of accepting his PIL,  Hon Judge has asked him to provide his income tax returns to the court !

You are in AP.  CM is busy in fighting with Centre .  Forgotten to appoint Lokaykta.   He can only go into matters of corruption.  At present filing declaration suit before competent court is the only remedy in India to cancel a Registered sales deed.

Infact police should accept a complaint on fraud, forgery etc., but no PS in AP is at present registering such complaints, even if it is registered, they keep it pending for 3 years only to close stating that investigation established that the allegations are false.

 

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