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maestro25i

information from cantonment board regarding illegal constructions and building plans

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maestro25i

hi,

this is the first time im applying under the rti act.

id like to know whom to apply to regarding a cantonment board. there are many major fsi violations in new residential constructions takign place in my cantonment, how do i get the building plans of these properties from the cantonment, so i can then crosscheck what has been passed versus what is being done, and then pursue the matter in the courts.

 

how would i go about getting these plans , as the cantonment is quite corrupt and in the pocket of these builders, the rti act is my only hope, and i need help using it to best effect.

pls advice , will be much appreciated

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karira

Your Cantonment will have a CPIO (central Public Information Officer). His name and other details will be on the notice board at the entrance to the Cantonment Office. If it is not displayed, just ask "Who is the PIO under the RTI Act in this office ?"

 

Your RTI Application has to be accompanied by a application fee of Rs. 10.00. This can be paid by way of a DD/BC/IPO in favour of "Accounts Officer" (or the PIO will inform you the payees details).

 

Please draft a suitable application and if you want, you can upload the draft here for our helpful members to guide you further.

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maestro25i

excellent ,

ill go pay the cantonment a visit in an hour or so, however this is a very small cantonment, i hope they have the pio position filled :)

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sandeepbaheti

If you don't find a PIO, you can submit your application to Assistant PIO.

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maestro25i

hi again,

i did find a PIO sitting in the cantonment :)

will go submit an application tomorrow. i would need some advice from you guys to make this effective though, coz massive manipulations have taken place and the information wont be too forthcoming im afraid..

 

i believe teh builder has commited massive fsi violations... to verify this im going to need a building plan that has been approved by the cantonment... or is there some other document thats public record that i can ask for ??

 

also does anyone know the section of the rti under which i can ask for the building plan of a residential complex in an army cantonment ?

 

advice will be much appreciated.

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maestro25i

hi below is what im going to submit, any changes to be made ?

 

 

To,

 

The public information officer

Cantonment.

 

Sub : Request for information under the Right to Information Act, 2005

 

Dear Sir,

 

I request you to provide me with the following information under the RTI Act, 2005. The sanctioned plan of the residential project ************************

 

 

It is requested that this information along with documents may please be forwarded to the undersigned in ENGLISH language, duly attested/certified by appropriate authorities so as to make them legally admissible in a Court of Law.

 

On receipt of information under this application, I intend to carry out actual inspection of records at your office. I may be permitted such inspection.”

 

Thank you

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maestro25i

could someone suggest anything else to add ?

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karira

Add in the starting:

 

I, Mr......., a citizen of India, apply for the following information under Sec 6(1) of the RTI Act.

 

Ask for:

- Certified copies of the sanctioned plan

- Name/Address/Tel of the Officer who approved the plan

- If the building/layout has been inspected after the construction

- If yes, a certified copy of the inspection report

- Name/Address/Tel of the Officer who inspected the building/layout after completion

- Does the final construction adhere to the approved plan

- If no, please provide copy of the Action taken Report

- Inspection of all Files and Records concerning the permission to the building/layout....

 

Add at the end:

 

Enclosed is IPO Nr....dated....for Rs. 10, payable to Accounts Officer towards payment of application fee for this RTI Application.

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maestro25i

hrm,

i typed a msg thanking you, whered it disappear.. anyways . thank ur 4 ur help karira.. much much appreciated :)

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maestro25i

hey , they rejected my application over a small mistake, the survey number i gave them was only half ... even tho the rest of the request such as the name of the project and area etc were mentioned also..

 

coudl someone tell me if the building plan of a society under construction is a public document ? can the builder object to the cantonment giving out such information under the rti act ?

 

thank you

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karira

You will have to resubmit your application with the correct survey number.

 

The approved Building Plan is a public document.

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maestro25i

hi again,

resubmitted the query, the cantonment has apparently informed the builder that the plan has been asked for , and the builder has payed us a visit, tho i wasnt home at the time.

ive been told that the cantonment has asked him for permission whether they should give us the plan !

is this possible ? and do i have any way to ensure that i get the building plan

 

the rtiact is wonderful, but ppl still seem to be finding ways to delaying or stopping it!

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karira

There is no way that this can be considered as "third party" information.

The PIO cannot deny such information.

Just wait till the PIO replies to you.

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chanda_s

probably no building plan for the society exists. normally, one can't have societites coming up in cantonments. the building laws for most cantonments are very stringent and hardly allow any large scale constructions like societies, unless of course, you happen to be in secunderabad or kamptee.

 

but if a plan does exist, should it not be a third party information? for all i know i wouldn't want people to know the layout of my house without my permission, considering the sensitivity of the information and that it could go to wrong hands.

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maestro25i

there are many societies in cantoments.. and how can a building plan not exist, any construction activity first needs an approval and sanction of the plan by the cantonment ..

 

as regards safety , that could be an issue raised, but thats for the courts to ponder about.. i dont think the cantonment has power to decide. if the law says they have to provide... than they probably have to ..

 

what im curious about is, has anyone else been denied such information in the past applied under the rti act.., on any excuse or pretense .

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maestro25i

and does the cantonment need to ask or inform the person that such information has been requested...

informing the builder i guess is reasonable enough, but asking for his permission ???

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taurus

If the plan is to be approved by a public authority, then it is covered under RTI. You can very well ask for it. Did you get the correct survey number? Without that also you can apply quoting the location etc.

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taurus

It can be construed as invasion of privacy under sec 8(1)(j). That is why the PIO has asked the builder whether he has any objection. That is all right as far as the procedure goes. But even if the builder objects, he should show stronger and valid reasons that there is no larger public interest justifying the disclosure of the info. The PIO has to take the final decision. You can wait and see. If you are not satisfied with the reply of PIO, when it comes, you can make an appeal to the appellate authority.

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maestro25i

well i resubmitted with teh correct survey number.

 

well in my opinion.. and it is clearly visible too , there is massive manipulation that d builder has done vis a vis teh current rules.. i just need the sanctioned building plan so i have proof, in order to take further action...

how can i complain to any authority without proof of manipulation, thats what the building plan is for ... how else can i substantiate my claim...

hmm

and if they reject giving me the plan,, i have still asked for permission to check it at the cantonment and also whether they have made visits to chk the contruction activity vis a vis plan .. before giving a completion certificate etc etc

 

can they deny me everything ? iunder the guise of privacy..

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maestro25i

Section 8 (1) (j)

Synonyme: sec 8(1)(j) Added by kushal, 04-11-2009 09:29 AM

 

1. Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act, there shall be no obligation to give any citizen: -

j. information which relates to personal information the disclosure of which has no relationship to any public activity or interest, or which would cause unwarranted invasion of the privacy of the individual unless the Central Public Information Officer or the State Public Information Officer or the appellate authority, as the case may be, is satisfied that the larger public interest justifies the disclosure of such information: Provided that the information which cannot be denied to the Parliament or a State Legislature shall not be denied to any person.

 

 

 

i dont think a building plan for a society which is still under construction and thus has no one living there yet.. is invastion of privacy.. nor do i think such information can be denied to a parliament or state legislature ...

 

i think im safe :) , if anyone has any comments or advice on what i can do ,, in advance.. so i may be able to pre empt any denial of information that just might be forthocming.. pls advice

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karira

but if a plan does exist, should it not be a third party information? for all i know i wouldn't want people to know the layout of my house without my permission, considering the sensitivity of the information and that it could go to wrong hands.

 

Sec 11 which deals with third party information only deals with that information which has been submitted by a third party and "has been treated as confidential by that third party".

No application for approval of building plan can be considered as submitted in confidence.

Please see the application for Building plan approval of the Secunderabad Cantonment Board: http://scb.aponline.gov.in/SCBPortal/Forms/FORM-A,B.pdf

Nowhere does it say that the application is submitted in confidence or is confidential.

As all of us know there is a lot of corruption in building plans in all municipalities so it is always better for the Public Authority to be transparent particularly in this matter.

The GHMC in fact has made it a rule that any building under construction should mention various details like rough sketch, name of architect, name of engineer, dates, approvals, etc. on a board to be displayed prominently at the construction site.

In some Minicipalities, a builder is required to get a NOC from the neighbors.

 

It can be construed as invasion of privacy under sec 8(1)(j). That is why the PIO has asked the builder whether he has any objection. That is all right as far as the procedure goes.

 

If the PIO has already decided to withold the information under Sec 8(1)(j), where is the necessity to ask the builder under Sec 11. The procedure prescribed in Sec 11 only becomes applicable if the "PIO intends to disclose...."

 

well i resubmitted with teh correct survey number.

 

well in my opinion.. and it is clearly visible too , there is massive manipulation that d builder has done vis a vis teh current rules.. i just need the sanctioned building plan so i have proof, in order to take further action...

how can i complain to any authority without proof of manipulation, thats what the building plan is for ... how else can i substantiate my claim...

hmm

and if they reject giving me the plan,, i have still asked for permission to check it at the cantonment and also whether they have made visits to chk the contruction activity vis a vis plan .. before giving a completion certificate etc etc

 

can they deny me everything ? iunder the guise of privacy..

 

Please see:

 

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/356-right-information-lends-teeth-whistleblower.html

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/7000-mystery-missing-file.html

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/7282-how-we-used-right-information-against-unauthorised-construction.html

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whackpack

dear maestro

 

can you pl upload a copy of the revised application you have submitted?

 

construction permission for any development needs to be obtained from the applicable local area authority. you should make a parallel RTI application to the PIO of brihanmumbai nagar palika Official Website of Municipal Corporation of Greater Mumbai and seek information including:

 

  • copy of the approved plan
  • copy of progress certificates submitted by the applicant in the particular case (if any)
  • copy of complains against illegal constructon happening on site till date, if any, and the action taken on them
  • copy of site visit reports / records of the mcgm officials at various stages of approval, till date.

they should provide you the above information.

 

further, i wish to know:

 

  1. what exactly is meant by builder. is it a single occupancy unit, where the builder is also the ultimate owner, or a builder making a society of several units, which would be sold / let out / allotted later?
  2. to whom does the land belong, on which the construction is being done? does it belong to the cantonment, or the builder. what is the builder's role. is he merely a developer?

 

answers to these questions will help evolve your further strategy

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taurus

Mr Karira has said:

"If the PIO has already decided to withold the information under Sec 8(1)(j), where is the necessity to ask the builder under Sec 11. The procedure prescribed in Sec 11 only becomes applicable if the "PIO intends to disclose....""

 

BUT

 

Sec 8 (1)(j) and Sec 11 are interlinked. The fact that the PIO has asked the third party's views, shows that prima facie the PIO intends to disclose the info. Before that he will consider the submissions made by the third party. Moreover, it is not necessary that the third party should have mentioned the info/document as confidential at the time of submission itself to the PA. He can do so at any time.

These are discussed in detail in the case of Reliance Industries (SPECIAL CIVIL APPLICATION No. 16073 of 2007 With SPECIAL CIVIL APPLICATION No. 17067 of 2007) by the Gujarat High Court on 06/08/2007.

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maestro25i

Hi,

first of all , thank you all for ur advice and suggestions.

i must compliment this forum as being one of the most helpful ones ive ever been on. this is a true public service ! :)

 

as regards teh construction, its a plot of land owned by the builder on which he has constructed houses that he has already mostly presold to buyers. hence my urgency, once he gives possession to the new owners, it will be hard to pursue any action.

 

the revised petition is the same as the original except for the survey number.. and since they have informed the builder i guess they have found no fault in the form this time ..

 

its been over 20 days now , since ive filed the revised appliacation .. a month since the original application was submitted.

 

thats what makes me wonder bout hanky panky. a simple building plan in a small cantonment should not takemore than a week atmost to process !

 

now im thinking of submitting another rti application just in case in a different name for the same information, just in case .. think it is worth doing that ??

anyhow will keep everyone updated

 

dear maestro

 

can you pl upload a copy of the revised application you have submitted?

 

construction permission for any development needs to be obtained from the applicable local area authority. you should make a parallel RTI application to the PIO of brihanmumbai nagar palika Official Website of Municipal Corporation of Greater Mumbai and seek information including:

 

  • copy of the approved plan
  • copy of progress certificates submitted by the applicant in the particular case (if any)
  • copy of complains against illegal constructon happening on site till date, if any, and the action taken on them
  • copy of site visit reports / records of the mcgm officials at various stages of approval, till date.

they should provide you the above information.

 

further, i wish to know:

 

  1. what exactly is meant by builder. is it a single occupancy unit, where the builder is also the ultimate owner, or a builder making a society of several units, which would be sold / let out / allotted later?
  2. to whom does the land belong, on which the construction is being done? does it belong to the cantonment, or the builder. what is the builder's role. is he merely a developer?

answers to these questions will help evolve your further strategy

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sandeepbaheti

Since as per the cantonment, this is a matter involving a third party, the time limit for providing the information is 40 days. You need to wait for upto 20 more days.

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