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chiragkaria

"There are no such separate records kept..."

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chiragkaria

I had asked for an information in Dist. Consumer Forum. The exact wordings were as follows

 

"Please provide me the details of all such pending cases in the your forum in which more than 3 adjournments were given. The details should be given in the following format

 

Sr. No. Case No. Complainant Respondent Date of Reg. No. of adjournment"

 

The reply I got is "There are no such separate records kept at our office"

 

 

Is it proper?

 

Pls note that as per the law, no adjournments should regularly be given, if at all it is given, it must be noted in proceedings with reason.

 

Please help me what is the law point and what can I do further?

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sandeepbaheti

Good point raised. As per Consumer Protection Act there should be no adjournments in hearing of consumer fora but this rule is regularly flouted at many places.

The Dist. Forum is right in saying that no such record is kept. I think your purpose will be served if you file a fresh RTI application seeking details of all adjournments made, say in the last 6 months, along with recorded reasons for the adjourment. It would be a good idea to ask for inspection of records.

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rajub

I would suggest you seek inspection of records.

 

Note down case numbers where more than three adjournments are given and then file suitable RTI application.

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chiragkaria
I would suggest you seek inspection of records.

 

Note down case numbers where more than three adjournments are given and then file suitable RTI application.

 

>>> What I want to say is, can they reply like this? or they will have to fetch necessary information from those files and provide it to us?

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jps50

PIO is not supposed to create the info. However, he has to collect the info. Pl refer:

 

CENTRAL INFORMATION COMMISSION

Complaint No. CIC/WB/C/2007/00931 dated 20.11.2007

Appeal No.CIC/WB/A/2008/00886 dated 16.5.2008

Right to Information Act 2005 – Section 18 &19

Appellant - Mr. Muzibur Rahman

Respondent - Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI)

 

In addition to what has been suggested as above, pl file first appeal by following Gujarat:

GUJARAT RTI RULES/FORMATS - RTI Guide. Pl quote above decision which can be downloaded from CIC website.

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rajub

Chirag,

 

Seeking the inspection is practical and quick solution. It will give you the desired information on the spot.

 

If you insist on information be supplied by PIO only you will have to file first appeal (and probably second appeal too) which is a lengthy, cumbersome and costly process.

 

Choice is yours.

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jps50

Chirag can follow all these steps simultaneously. One new RTI appln covering inspection and additional information as suggested at post No. 2 above. And to pursue old RTI appln with first appeal. There is no much efforts or money involved in these steps.

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chiragkaria
Chirag,

 

Seeking the inspection is practical and quick solution. It will give you the desired information on the spot.

 

If you insist on information be supplied by PIO only you will have to file first appeal (and probably second appeal too) which is a lengthy, cumbersome and costly process.

 

Choice is yours.

 

Its true but I want the information to be certified by the office, else I know that there are 808 cases pending and all of them fall into the category where the adjourments given are more than 3 and in more than 80% cases it is more than 10 and in more than 30% cases it is more than 20.

 

What I want to do is to use this certified information to put my law point on the desk of higher authorities. The PIO perhaps knows this and hence denies.

 

Also I know that they will not co-operate with the inspection procedure.

 

Alternatively, pls tell me how can I get it certified from the office itself If I go for Inspection as then all the information gathered by me will be known to me only.

 

Thank you very much for your guidence. I further request you to help me in future also.

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rajub

Chirag,

 

You have three options.

 

1) During the inspection demand for the certified photocopies of the "record pages" which involve the information you need. The PIO is duty bound to supply them. If he refuses don't give him the certificate that you were allowed the inspection of records. But before asking for the certified photocopies note down the reference numbers/file numbers which contain the necessary records.

 

2) Go to the inspection with a digital camera. Take the photographs (and print outs) instantly. Request the PIO to certify/attest the photographs. If he refuses to certify don't give him certificate........

 

3) Note down the file numbers/reference numbers and the actual dates of adjournments for various case numbers in tabular form. Request the PIO to certify / attest the tabulation. OR File another RTI application asking the question "Is it true that the in the following cases the adjourments were given for the dates given in the table"

 

Good luck!

 

Don't loose heart.

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chiragkaria

Thats not possible as there are 808 pending cases and it will require lots of time and money. (More than the appeal cost may be...)

 

Pls tell me following...

 

1. As per rule they must provide the details in the format I need?

(Because, its consumer court and as per the law it is compulsary to note down the reason for adjournment if given.)

 

2. How much time and what efforts will it take to get it done thru appeal?

 

3. Will the PIO be penalised for the same?

 

4. Is it possible that at the end of the appeal, I may be given some reimbursement of the ticket fare to the place of appeal etc. ?

 

Regards

 

Chirag

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sandeepbaheti

The appeal procedure is simple but because of high pendency SIC level it takes upto one year for the second appeal to come up for hearing. The PIO is expected to provide only information which is readily available on record or can be compiled with reasonable amount of effort. I doubt if you will get the information in the form you want even after appeal.

The PIO can be penalized if he unreasonably denies information. In this case the PIO seems to have a good defense. There is a very faint chance of PIO getting penalized.

Costs for attending appeal are normally not reimbursed.

 

I would advise you to go ahead with the appeal but don't expect too much out of it. File another RTI application simultaneously to get as much information as possible. As a suggestion, you can try asking for case number and other particulars of all adjournments made in the last 6 months along with recorded reasons for adjournment.

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karira
Thats not possible as there are 808 pending cases and it will require lots of time and money. (More than the appeal cost may be...)

 

Pls tell me following...

 

1. As per rule they must provide the details in the format I need?

(Because, its consumer court and as per the law it is compulsary to note down the reason for adjournment if given.)

 

2. How much time and what efforts will it take to get it done thru appeal?

 

3. Will the PIO be penalised for the same?

 

4. Is it possible that at the end of the appeal, I may be given some reimbursement of the ticket fare to the place of appeal etc. ?

 

Regards

 

Chirag

 

1. The PIO is not supposed to create or generate fresh information where none exists. But, if the information already exists (as in your case), then he must compile it:

 

http://cic.gov.in/CIC-Orders/WB-28082008-06.pdf

 

Appeal No.CIC/MA/A/2006/00653 refers to a public authority not being expected to “create and generate afresh information” where none exists, “because it is sought by an appellant”. Where the information already exists and the issue is simply compiling it to provide an applicant, it is quite clearly the responsibility of the CPIO who is expected to collate the existing information and provide it to the applicant, in the form ordinarily to be provided in which it is sought.

 

http://cic.gov.in/CIC-Orders/WB-26092008-03.pdf

 

Notwithstanding the above, however we are of the opinion after

discussing with CPIO that the information sought against question no. 4 of the RTI application will take not more than 2-3 days to compile since all that is required is 38 names together with their qualifications. Because appellant is facing difficulty in visiting the office of Indian Rare Earths Ltd. In order to inspect the files the CPIO has no objection to mailing this to him, which he has agreed to do.

CPIO Shri Sridharan will now compile and provide to appellant Shri

Madhusoodhanan Nair a summary of the list of candidates who applied against the said notification with their education qualification and experience and courier the same to him within 10 working days of the date of receipt of this decision notice.

 

http://cic.gov.in/CIC-Orders/WB-08052008-02.pdf

 

Moreover, Section 7 (9) of the RTI Act clearly states that “an information should ordinarily be provided in the form in which it is sought1”. It is therefore, the duty of the CPIO to compile the information and provide it in the manner sought by appellant unless this would disproportionately divert the resources of the public authority or would be detrimental to the safety or preservation of the

record in question.

 

http://cic.gov.in/CIC-Orders/OK-30062008-09.pdf

 

During the hearing, the Respondents stated that they did not maintain any such data and that it would take them some time to compile this. According to both the Respondents and the Appellants, such cases would not be more than, say, 150. The Commission felt that compilation of such data would also be in the interest of the Respondents themselves hence it gives them time upto 31 July 2008 to compile and supply this data to the Appellant.

 

2. As some members have suggested to you, redraft your application and submit a new RTI application.

 

3. For the present RTI Application go for First appeal with the above citations. If you find that during the First appeal, the matter is not going in your favour, then ask the FAA to allow you inspection and take certified copies of the relevant pages, during your inspection.

 

4. The First Appeal hardly takes any time to draft. The FAA has 30 days to decide your appeal. In the First Appeal ask for a personal hearing so that you can stress during the appeal as to why exactly you are doing this (even though under Sec 6(2) you are not required to give any reason for seeking information). Also quote the preamble of the RTI Act.

 

5. The FAA has no powers to penalise the PIO. The penalty can be prayed for only during the second Appeal.

 

6. There is no provision for reimbursement of traveling expenses.

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whackpack

that clears a doubt i had for a long time - on whether the PIO is expected to compile the information in the format desired by applicant. the particular case cited is a decision of CIC. will it apply to PIOs say in Gujarat and Maharashtra as well...?

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chiragkaria

Thank You very much to all of you.

 

Pls do a favour and tell me following

 

1. Is it required that the PIO should mention his name in reply to the RTI application?

 

2. What should be done if some part of the RTI querry is missed and not replied by the PIO?

 

3. What to be done if some calculation mistake is there in reply to RTI application? (For eg. I asked for some pending cases year wise and at the end the total of all, but the total comes to 1700 and they shown it as 800 only)

 

4. Should the PIO mention the FAA details if he has not given some information?

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jps50

It appears there is some apprehension for inspection. U can go for fresh RTI appln as suggested above plus file first appeal for your old RTI appln quoting decisions of CIC.

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karira

 

1. Is it required that the PIO should mention his name in reply to the RTI application?

2. What should be done if some part of the RTI querry is missed and not replied by the PIO?

3. What to be done if some calculation mistake is there in reply to RTI application? (For eg. I asked for some pending cases year wise and at the end the total of all, but the total comes to 1700 and they shown it as 800 only)

4. Should the PIO mention the FAA details if he has not given some information?

 

1. The information provided by the PIO should be under his signature with his name and his designation as PIO clearly mentioned. He can also mention his normal designation, if he so wishes. This issue has been discussed exhaustively in the following thread:

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/693-signature-public-information-officer-cpio-must-reply.html

 

2. If the has not given the complete information you requested, then under Sec 18(1)(e) it is "incomplete" information. This can be a ground for First Appeal.

 

3. How are you sure that it is a calculation mistake ? It can be "misleading" or "incorrect" information as per Sec 18(1)(e).

 

4. Yes PIO must mention FAA details if he has denied some information. Not giving some information can be considered as "deemed" denial of information. The CIC has consistently taken the view that PIO should always provide the FAA details. Please see the following post:

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/3476-what-if-first-appelant-doesnt-accept-your-appeal.html#post12016

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