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lakshminarasimhan

Is RTI an Eyewash?

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Hi,

 

 

I had applied to get some information through RTI-2005. I m based in Chennai and I sought to seek information from Tashildar Office,Tambaram. Despite my first appeal and second appeal I had not received any information that I had seeked.

 

I don't understand why RTI had not taken any action against the concerned public information officers for not providing me the information that I had sought. I had been informed RTI acts stringently and I will get the information that I seek if I apply it through RTI. But it look like only an EYEWASH.

 

Anyone who doubt about my claim I can prove with all the documents that RTI had not taken proper action for my second appeal and I had not got the sought information even after my second appeal.

 

I had wasted so much of money, time and effort believing in this helpless RTI.

 

Please can anyone help me out by guiding me what should I do if I didnot get the information that I seek after my second appeal.

 

Is their any governing body of RTI to whom I can complain about RTI's malfunctioning.

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Please post the copies of your RTI application, its response if any, your first and second appeal, verbatim. You can upload them as attachments to your post. That will enable our active members to review your case and come out with their ideas and suggestions.

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Since most of State Information Commissions and Central Information Commission are overburdened with second appeals or complaints, it will take more time, before it is heard by the commission. If you have properly followed procedure and rules of Tamilnadu state, U will get information though belatedly and PIO "may" be punished in all probability. I have provided rules applicable to Tamilnadu in Guide section [top right hand side of this page]. Pl check your application.

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RTI is helpless...!

I am shocked to hear such things.

It is indeed a Sun Shine Law, Please upload all ur details, You will surely get favourable response.

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RTI in Tamil Nadu is supposed to be quite responsive, going by newspaper reports. So you need not feel disheartened. Pls post the details. Members may suggest means to get what you want.

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As Ganpati1956 said please post the copy of application submitted reply(s) sent/received only then one can advise to solve the problem.

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Send me copies of RTI Application and Appeals made to enable me to guide you.

One step which could help u a lot will be to approach local press of Madras.That will put the authorities moving.SIC will take time to decide the case.

 

If u have knowledge of specific document required why don't u take help under Indian Evidence Act and ask foer copy of document by paying a nominal fee

 

R K Garg

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I m attaching the documents related my Second Appeal to RTI.

 

The My_Second_Appeal_To_RTI1,2,3.jpeg are the documents that I made for my second appeal to RTI.

 

RTI_Response_For_My_Second_Appeal.jpeg is the action taken by RTI. RTI had simply forwarded a letter for PIO to take necessary action for my second appeal.

 

PIO_Response_4_RTIAction1.jpeg is the letter that I received from PIO after my second appeal to RTI and RTI's action. The letter from PIO States that I have to go and meet the concerned officer to get the necessary information by word of mouth which is absolutely ridiculous.

 

The reason for my application itself is since the information that the concerned officer gave by word of mouth is not sufficient for me to proceed further to take legal action against his fraudulent deeds.

 

Is thier anyone here to argue further that RTI is a sunshine law and all.I had followed the procedure perfectly as per the guidelines without any error in my part.

 

I had been told that thier will be response for the first appeal and the PIO has to pay Rs250/- per single day delay after the first appeal.All are just news.Newspapers and press in tamilnadu are giving unnecassary hype about RTI the where can I go and approach them.

 

The documents that I had enclosed are in Tamil except the one from RTI. For those of you who cannot understand it I can translate it and post it in English with my whole case history.But it will be a bit big.

 

Can you kindly let me know regarding Indian Evidence Act. Is thier any way to get out of corrupt, evil and wicked act made by governement servants.

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I m attaching the documents related my Is thier any way to get out of corrupt, evil and wicked act made by governement servants.

 

Neither the RTI Act is corrupt/evil/wicked nor is it made by government servants.

 

Let us first have a look at all the copies of your documents starting from your original RTI application. Our active members have already offered to guide you further based on them.

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I have emailed to you recent decision of Tamilnadu Info. Com which shows what RTI can do. Donot lose heart with delay. V have to keep on pushing on. 60 year old mindset and systems do not change over night. Pl post papers in English, as members may not be conversant with Tamil.

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My case is this. My Grandfather purchased a property in 1960 in MKN Road, Alandur, Chennai. It has been divided to my father and my father's sister. My aunt's part is enjoyed by her son who has got a building with industrial power connection. He had attained bank a loan on it for constructing a building with his patta and documents.He is enjoying his mother's share of the property which is built. My father's part is a unconstructed land with compound wall on all sides with gate enclosing my aunty son's building. Couple of years back My father had gifted his part to me and it has been registered on my name.I have encumbrance certificate on my name without any issues on it for my property.

 

I applied for transferring the Patta to my name from my father's name on 28th April 2007. I had been informed by Deputy Tashildar who was in power then that my land along with my aunty son's building has been considered as a porambuku land(waste land) and gifted to the neighbouring landlord. He then showed a survey document from his office in which my grandfather's name together with my aunt's name had been circled out and some thing had been written over it like considered as porambukku(waste land) and had been gifted to the neighbouring landlord.

 

I had not been given any written document regarding rejection of my patta application except being told that it has been considered as Porambokku land(Waste land) and gifted to the neighbourhood landlord by DRO order based on a proceeding which we are not aware of.

 

I had sought to seek some of the following informations like 1) on what basis a land and building that has been given patta previously had been considered as Poramboku land(waste land) and gifted to someone else.

2) who are the officers involved in this order. 3) I need the copies of document that mentions the legal powers for a DRO to consider a land as a waste land and gift it to someone else. 4) what documents did the neighbourhood landlord provided to consider our land as porumbakku land and to be clubbed and donated to him. 5) A copy of order of the proceedings by DRO.

 

I had made my first application to RTI on the month of June 2007.For my second appeal I got information from PIO to go and meet Tambaram Tashildar and get information by word of mouth.

 

When I went to Tambaram Tashildar he asked me to go and meet DRO in person and to get the information. I had not been able to meet the DRO so many times when I went to see him in his office which is very far from my place.They wont be in the office most of time. We have to wait for hours until they come back after which their will be a big queue for welcoming him. We will only get a chance to meet him after hours and hours of waiting.Either he will give misleading information or redirect to his subordinate who does it precisely.

 

I had applied for seeking the same information from DRO office through RTI again. I had not been given any information still now regarding not issuing me a patta by means of writing except being told word of mouth.

 

If thier is no Mischieves or any fraudulent activity on their part why is that they are hesitating to give me the information that I seek in writing.

 

Is their anything that a person has got to be specially blessed with other to be born in country to get the information that they seek to fight against injustice.

 

Neither the RTI Act is corrupt/evil/wicked nor is it made by government servants. (Unless and until you experience it by yourself you cannot accept the statement).

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Dear Lakshminarasinhan,

In these parts of our country there are innumerable cases exactly like yours. In your case you are absolutely right and to my mind the authorities have far too many things to hide and that is the reason for their evading reply. Before enactment of the RTI Act there was absolutely no practical solution other than entering into prolonged litigation. The RTI Act has bestowed on us the power to question, seek information about any document, gather evidence and seek action taken by them.

 

Such cases are normally not likely to get resolved quickly due to the resistance of the officials who have erred. Unless they are compelled they won't provide you any information if they can afford. What you should do is to persuade the case from various angle so that they are compelled to reply you. In the bargain they are likely to commit contradictions and mistakes. From those bits you have to build your case.

 

I don't think that even if your land is a waste land the Tahsildar or RDO has any power to assign it to your neighbour. Please make use of RTI Act fully to gather maximum data and evidence. Some time later you may have to approach the judiciary with the evidence gained.

 

You don't have to meet the Tahsildar and party. If the AA formally call you for hearing only you have to attend. No verbal settlement. You may have to file many RTI applications one after another to gather bits and pieces of documentary evidence. I could not read your applicatios in Tamil. However I got a general idea of your case. Please don't loose heart. There are many experienced learned members in this forum to assist you in your struggle. But please don't loose heart.

 

Incidentally your case has got prompt and fast attention from theS IC. If you had gone to the Court or approached through any means other than RTI, do you think you would have got anything beter. Now atleast theSIC has referred your case to the PIO. It is a good start.

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Though you have generally followed the procedure for getting info from the PIO, I feel that your second appeal to the SIC is not properly made. You have simply asked the SIC to get you the info. They have promptly forwarded it to the PIO - RDO, Chengalpattu. Now you are not satisfied with the info furnished by the PIO/RDO, Chengalpattu. You may again approach the SIC saying that the PIO has failed to provide you the info and asking him to take action on the PIO. The appeal should be suitable drafted and with proper enclosures.

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Make three collums write

INFORMATION REQUESTED # INFORMATION RECEIVED # PENDING INFORMATION

 

writ again to SIC (in continuation to my second appeal I am hereby submitting my submission(s)/observation(s) regarding deficencies in the information provided)

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It clearly appears that your letter dated your letter dated 10.11.2007 has not been considered as a second appeal by the SCIC, but only as a representation, probably on account of the deficiencies in the format of the appeal. Besides, there has been a time gap of more than six months since you received your last reply from the PIO/RDO, Chengalpet.

 

Though the RTI application questions you have mentioned in post #13 appears okay, you have not informed the reply that you got from the PIO for this application, the format of first appeal that you had filed and its reply. With the result, I am unable to state clearly whether you should pursue this second appeal itself, or to restart the process afresh.

 

As suggested by Colonel, a few more RTI applications will definitely help. Though our members will be ready to help you with the format of the applications and other details, I would advise you to go through the various threads in this forum on first appeal & second appeal and get a complete grasp of the subject. Please also go through the Tamil version of the RTI Act guidebook which is uploaded in the directory section.

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In my second appeal to the SIC I had mentioned clearly that I had not received any information till then. Even though I had mentioned boldly in the subject that it is my second appeal I wonder why the SIC had not considered it as an appeal and considered it as a representation.In fact I had gone through the RTI guide in tamil and followed the procedures mentioned in it.It clearly shows of that RTI people are also government servants with a tendency to cooperate to thier counterparts rather than providing impartial service to the public.

 

For those of who are reading this thier is even more surprise for you Since I had not received information from RDO, Chinglepet after my second appeal after that I had made a fresh RTI application directly to PIO of DRO office, Kancheepuram who is a grade higher than RDO. Through that application also I had not got the seeked information yet even after first appeal. I had made a second appeal for that and waiting for reply for past couple of weeks. If they are this much defiant in giving the information you can imagine the extreme of their mischieves.

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For format and procedure for first and second appeals pl use the formats with necessary changes as posted in my blogs on first and second appeals for central govt. Tamilnadu rules do not provide format and hence U can use those of central govt. with changes. If your earlier non-rti applications are pending with concerned dept, pl visit my blog "any thing pending with govt?"

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I went to RTI office,Chennai in person on 16/7/2008 with the copies of my appeal and spoke to the RTI Officials regarding my appeal. I asked the officer who spoke to me why my second appeal(I had mentioned it in my document that it is a second appeal in the subject line) has been forwarded as a representation to the PIO instead of calling the PIO for hearing.He was not able to give me an answer for that and asking me to reapply so that he will take necesssary action next time.He was not able to convince me for my question of why my second appeal has been considered as a representation. He was not willing to reveal his name when I asked for it after the conversation. I want to know if I am wrong to ask for his name.The way he answered giving misleading information, trying to jerk away and getting scared for my argument gives me a strong impression that they RTI had not taken proper action for my second appeal.

 

I would like to know do I need to mention in my appeal that I would like the PIO to be called up for an hearing or is it at the discretion of RTI officials.

 

If it is mandatory that the RTI officials has to call the PIO for a hearing after me mentioning of not receiving the sought information in my second appeal then the RTI has not acted properly in my case for sure. If anyone of you can clarify me regarding this I would like to proceed against the RTI officials.

 

Does the RTI officials come under the banner of State Vigilance Commission. Please those of you who are aware of the procedures can you guide me on this regard.

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We must be clear about what RTI is for. It is for giving info. It is not for taking action against anyone. We should not confuse the role of State or Central Information Commissioners with that of the Vigilance Commissioners. Roles of both are clearly different. Ofcourse, the info that we get through RTI may help us approach the Vigilance Commissioner for taking action against erring officials. That is by the way.

Coming to the point at issue, you may file a fresh second appeal now that the SIC is willing to take action on the appeal. This would cut short lot of delays which will otherwise be caused. Officials by nature are nervous and suspecious about info seekers even if they have done nothing wrong. Reasons for that are many. If we discuss that we may go astray. So dont worry too much about the demeanour of officials dealing with you. Just dont loose balance. Be calm and to the point. Try not to accuse. Be positive in your approach. That would put them at ease and helpful.

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Please send your application details to the following address:

 

R.P.Vallinayagam,

16/884 B 24 th. 2 nd. Cross Street,

Santhi Nagar,

Palayamkottai -627 002.

 

I can help you

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My sincere advice would be not to visit personally and discuss with PIO/FAA unless U intend to remain present in personal hearing with FAA, when called by him. I hve helped more than 100 applicants in this area, without ever applicant or me visiting PIO/FAA personally and got the desired results in almost all the cases. You have good command over language and hence write to them, rather than wasting your time, money and energy in visiting them and having bad experience.

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Just try to separate yourself emotionally from the case.

Pretend (to yourself) that you are seeking for someone else.

Then go about it methodically (with clinical precision) to collect through RTI all the info you need for the final judicial case which you may have to go though.

Our members here are all with you to help your quest.

Take heart & be confident - it may take some time

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