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senthil

Can Information Officer direct to approach other authority

Question

senthil

Can the Information officer instead of furnishing information direct the applicant to appraoch some other authority insted of himself securing and supplying information from such authority?

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Shrawan

No. He should secure it himself and convey the information to the applicant.

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maneesh

Dear Senthil,

The answer to your question is yes as well as no.

 

YES:

Information officer are apponited by Public Authority for dissemenation of Officer. RTI empowers a public authority for appointing more than one CPIOs. If a public authority has more than one CPIO then information asked from any one of the CPIO though not falling under his specific jurisdiction but under the same public authority has to be provided by collecting from the other CPIOs of the same public authority.

 

NO:

In case information is asked from a CPIO of a public authority about another public authority then public authority can transfer the application to anotoher public authority and inform the applicant.

Section 6 subsection 3 provides for the same:

 

(3) Where an application is made to a public authority requesting for an information,—

(i) which is held by another public authority; or

(ii) the subject matter of which is more closely connected with the functions of another public authority,

 

the public authority, to which such application is made, shall transfer the application or such part of it as may be appropriate to that other public authority and inform the applicant immediately about such transfer:

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sandeepbaheti

Well Maneesh, the question raised is whether the PIO can direct the applicant to approach another authority. The answer is a straightforward no. Either he should collect the information himself and provide to the applicant or forward it to appropriate PIO but in no case can he direct the applicant to approach another authority.

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Mahadevan

Section 6 subsection 3 provides for the same:

 

(3) Where an application is made to a public authority requesting for an information,—

(i) which is held by another public authority; or

(ii) the subject matter of which is more closely connected with the functions of another public authority,

 

the public authority, to which such application is made, shall transfer the application or such part of it as may be appropriate to that other public authority and inform the applicant immediately about such transfer:

 

In case such a transfer is made and the applicant is informed about it, is the first public authority duty bound to ensure that the second public authority (to whom the application is transferred) provides the information to the applicant? Or will the applicant be made to run from pillar to post to get the reply?

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advocate rajesh

no a spio or cpio can not direct an applicant to collect the information as there is no provision in RTI act. In one of my case it has been recently held that it was the duty of the BDPO to collect the information from sarpanch and hand over the same to the applicant instead of directing the applicant to contact the sarpanch.

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jps50

I invite kind attention to OM of DoPT dated 12-06-2008. It clarifies the whole issue of transfer.

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karira
I invite kind attention to OM of DoPT dated 12-06-2008. It clarifies the whole issue of transfer.

 

The Circular referred to is available here:

 

 

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/5962-dopt-circular-re-sec-6-3-transfer-right-information-applications.html

 

The Section "RTI Act & Circulars" also contains many other important and interesting circulars/guidelines/notifications related to RTI.

 

Members who are interested should regularly visit that section to keep themselves well informed about RTI.

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vikrambakshi67

hI

My issue is I have addressed application to CPIO of a Public Auth of Organzation A about Ex Public Auth OF Organzation A who is public auth of organzation B

 

Should the CPIO ask information from org anzation B public auth under section 5 or since issues are of organzation A, we are talking here of organzation and not individuals so cpio of orgnaztaion B cannot transfer my application under section 6

 

Correct me if i am wrong

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sandeepbaheti

Vikram, let's keep things simple. If the application does not relate to recepient PIO's PA, he has no option but to forward it to appropriate PIO. If he does not forward it for some reason then he is himself responsible for providing the information.

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vikrambakshi67

Sir

 

the information i seek is of organzation matters of first organzation A and not of issues of next organzation B.

 

it is just that PA has shifted from A to B.

 

pio of org A will seek INFO from Org B by sec 5 or sec 6 of issues of Public Auth when he was in org A.

 

THAT IS THE CONFUSION SEC 5 OR SEC 6

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sandeepbaheti

Do you mean the PIO has been shifted from A to B? In that case he will not carry along your application to his new organization. It is the officer holding the position of PIO which is responsible for providing information. Your application will remain with organization A. The new PIO of organization A will have to provide information. Time limit for providing information remains 30 days from the date on which the original PIO received your application. As such, there is no question of any transfer.

I hope I have correctly understood your query. Feel free to revert if you have further doubt.

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vikrambakshi67

Sir

 

Sorry for confusing you.

 

It is the public auth that has shifted from organzation A to organzation B.

 

the information i seek is of public authority issues when he was in org A

 

I applied for PIO of org A.

 

The PIO of Org A is saying there are no records held in org A of any decsion making of issues which i had sought of Public Auth when he was in Org A.

 

Now my query is how to force PIO of Org A to get information from Public Auth as he has now gone in Org B.

 

PIO of org B will deal with issues of org B.

 

SO what PIO of Org A does to seek information from public auth who is now of Org B . The information is concerning when that public auth was in org A couple of years back

 

 

Thanks

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sandeepbaheti

You cannot force PIO of one PA to give information about another PA. Since the transfer has created a complex situation, it makes sense to file a fresh RTI application to the correct PIO rather than worrying about getting the earlier one transferred.

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vikrambakshi67

sir you mean to say that i should lodge RTI to new PIO where PA has gone on transfer.

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karira

Vikram,

 

Your posts a very confusing !

Please clarify what do you mean by PA ?

Is it "Public Authority" ?

How can a "Public Authority" or "information" be transferred ?

 

I mentioned in reply to your post in some other thread:

 

PIO or any other officer and staff can get transferred. The Public Authority remains.

 

You have to ask for information to the PIO of the Public Authority which is the custodian of the information you are seeking. From the point of RTI, it is immaterial whether anyone has been transferred are not. Just ask your self "which PA has the information ?" and you will have the answer.

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vikrambakshi67

Sir

 

i mean the officer has been posted out from public auth appointment of organzation A to become public auth of organzation B.

 

I applied to PIO of org A to seek information OF CERTAIN ISSUES when the officer was as Public aUTH IN Org A. The PIO is saying he does not hold offical recorsd of decesion making of the officer when he was in Org A as PA. Now since he has gone to Org B,i should bother PIO of Org B.

 

I am asking PIO of org A to use section 5 and ask the information concerning issues of past of org A FROM THAT OFFICER who is in Org B.

 

Should PIO of Org A use Sec 5 or 6 from Ex Offical to trace missing files. That officer just cannot walk away unaccounted just because he is in transfer to Org B.

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karira

It is immaterial who is the PIO, whether is his transferred from PA A to PA B, and where is he now.

 

The main question you have to ask yourself is "where is the information" lying. The PIO cannot carry the information from PA A to PA B when he moved there.

 

When the PIO told you that he does not hold official records, did he reply to you in writing or verbally, Verbal replies have no meaning under RTI. The PIO does not hold all records. They might be lying anywhere in the organisation and he has to seek them from other officers and give the information to you.

 

Sec 5 applies only if it is within the same organisation and there is no case made for a Transfer of application.

 

If the organisation is different then the recipient PIO should himself transfer the application to the PIO whose PA holds the information under Sec 6(3). This transfer has to be made within 5 days of receiving your application and under intimation to you.

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vikrambakshi67

Fine i am sending another RTI to original PIO where the officers were posted earlier who failed to process my case timely, the PIO is saying there are no record of my letters and also decsion making documents Ex offical have either retired or gone on posting to org B. .the questions are like this.Please correct me if i am ok

 

 

(a) Please provide me copy of Ex Offical remarks justifying reasons for not processing my application if they had any objections

 

or

 

(b) Please forwards me copy of processing my official application by them to next HQ for recommendation if they had no intention of blocking my interview with concerend seniors

 

© Please provide me dissenting and concurring documents/noting sheets of Ex offical to be accompanied with my applications

 

(d) Please provide me correspondence wrt quasi decisions on my applications forwarded officially by me. ( the proof i have already given)

 

Every Government Action and Public Auth decision is based upon law/rules/act and set procedures. Please provide me the certified copies of the guidelines/rules/procedures, the "convention" or "normal practice" followed by Org A in processing an officer application and complaints by seniors in the hieracrhy

 

I also want information if Ex offical have not done their duties

 

(a) Please now provide me copy of seeking reasons from Ex offical if they are denying of these applications being perused by them.

 

(b) If reply is received from them, please provide copy of that reply to me.

 

 

© Please provide me rules and procedure of how HQ 'A' should assess any arbitrariness in the process or voilations of its HQ established norms by its present or Ex official.

 

 

(I) How are violations of established processes dealt in HQ 'A' ?

 

(II) How are violations in HQ 'A' reported to higher HQ

 

(iii) How is HQ 'A ' taking action against an Ex offical in violation of organization process

 

(iv) If any action has been taken against the Ex officers for violating the rules or regulations as now reported by me , please inform me the details of the action taken, if any inquiry held, outcome of the inquiry and the final action taken on the officer

 

(v) If no accountablity of Ex offical is there, please specify reasons.

 

(vi) Does the record contain the views / opinions of any officer/authority on such voilations and what does the record says how such officer be dealt with

 

 

 

,

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karira

Vikram,

 

Please redraft your RTI application - most of the queries will be denied as "not information" or under Sec 8 or 9.

 

Please refer to the online RTI act at act.rtiindia.info

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Jala Moses

Sir, I have asked information relating a GO that is mentioned in a proceedings(orders) issued by an office.

But they have sent that ," the information asked by you is not related to that department. and you have to ask information relating that department."

But , I have asked information on an orders issued by the same office.They didnt follow Sec 6 (3). And even they didnt direct me to approach another department.And that too information was provided after I filed my first appeal, that the PIO didnt gave me information.

 

What should I do now??Go for Second appeal in State Information commission or addendum to First appelate authority again??

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smbhappy
I invite kind attention to OM of DoPT dated 12-06-2008. It clarifies the whole issue of transfer.

 

This circular was struck down by SG vide decision No. CIC/SM/A/2011/000278/sg/12906 dated a6 June 2011, as it was inconsistent with the provision of law as contained in Section 13 of the General Clauses Act 1897.

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RAVEENA_O
Sir, I have asked information relating a GO that is mentioned in a proceedings(orders) issued by an office.

But they have sent that ," the information asked by you is not related to that department. and you have to ask information relating that department."

But , I have asked information on an orders issued by the same office.They didnt follow Sec 6 (3). And even they didnt direct me to approach another department.And that too information was provided after I filed my first appeal, that the PIO didnt gave me information.

 

What should I do now??Go for Second appeal in State Information commission or addendum to First appellate authority again??

Right to information means the right to information accessible under this Act, which is held by or under the control of any public authority .... . Thus, your right is only to seek information held by that particular authority. You cannot file RTI Application with the PIO of Police Station and seek the List of BPL Card Holders of that area. The question of transfer comes when the public authority which receive the RTI application knows as to which other pubic authority hold the demanded information. If you file RTI Application with the District Employment Officer and seek - the list of employees retired from Thane District during 2010, what the PIO is expected to do?

 

Wait for 30 to 45 days from the date of submission of first appeal and thereafter file Second Appeal, if you do not receive any decision from him.

 

SECOND APPEAL GUIDE (Central) by jps50

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/blogs/jps50/16-second-appeal-complaint-cic-guidelines.html

 

SECOND APPEAL FORMAT (Central) by jps50

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/blogs/jps50/15-second-appeal-complaint-cic-format.html

 

SECOND APPEAL STATE by jps50

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/blogs/jps50/342-second-appeal-complaint-state-information.html

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Nitin Singhvi

Dear Senthil and All friends,

As per section 6(1), one has to make an application to the PIO of the concerned Public Authority (PA). In case the Information is not held or under control of that concerned PA and the PIO knows that another PA holds the information only in that case he will transfer the application under section 6(3). The PIO is not supposed to transfer the application to many PAs as the act has used another word in sec 6(3). So one should be very careful and make the application to the PIO of the concerned PA. However within the PA the PIO can not ask to approach another PIO nor transfer the application to another/other PIO/PIOs who holds the Info. In the matter of P Rajan V/S Ministry of Company affairs Complaint No.ICPB/C1/CIC/2006 March 6, 2006 and Sarbajit Roy V/S DDA Appeal No. 10/1/2005-CIC deecided on 25.02.06 the full bench if Central Info Commission has very well settled the issue. Both the decisions are available on the web side of Central Info Commission. Please read the decisions.

Nitin Singhvi

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