Lottery by temple managent

[damodard29]

I had purchase the lottery from one temple management last year in Goa, which draw never happened hence I have requested the information to Government of Goa /directorate of small savings and lotteries 

Please provide the certified copies of the following documents related to the loterries as per copy of lottery ticket submitted here 

Documents related to general administration, Organisational Structure, Rules,  etc

Sale of tickets, unsold tickets, Printing of tickets, Distribution of tickets, Prize structure,

Lottery Draws, Publication of results, 

Prize and Agents Prize distribution, Income tax, Revenue collection, Profit and Loss details, Unclaimed Prizes,.

Now the Above lottery authority has transferred my RTI application to Mamletdar of my constituency stating he is the main administration for the temple in my constituency!

Please help me with details on above with your good support since all the information seeked by me has been transferred to the Mamletdar Authority!

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by damodard29
Alteration

[Prasad GLN]

The first question is as to whether the Lottery is having such permissions/approvals/sanctions etc.

Now that they have identified public authority, as the process has already started, wait for their response.

Depending on their response you can go for first appeal if possible.

It is still doubtful whether endowments/temples are Public authority or not.

You ought to have asked whether the temple is having such permissions to conduct such lotteries and entire set of documents submitted by them temple authorities while seeking permission if any for conducting such lottery and approvals with such conditions by authorities.

Edited August 2, 2020 by Prasad GLN

[damodard29]

On 8/2/2020 at 6:27 PM, Prasad GLN said:

The first question is as to whether the Lottery is having such permissions/approvals/sanctions etc.

Now that they have identified public authority, as the process has already started, wait for their response.

Depending on their response you can go for first appeal if possible.

It is still doubtful whether endowments/temples are Public authority or not.

You ought to have asked whether the temple is having such permissions to conduct such lotteries and entire set of documents submitted by them temple authorities while seeking permission if any for conducting such lottery and approvals with such conditions by authorities.

Sir, how the govt authority cannot take the cognizance of such matter, it meaning do the temple management fool the public anytime by printing such unaccountable lotteries and do the fraud with the public without maintaining the transparency in the lottery sale,

Please advise your best for solutions on such matters,

Thank you!

 

[Prasad GLN]

You have solicited following information from a Small savings a Public authority.

"Please provide the certified copies of the following documents related to the loterries as per copy of lottery ticket submitted here 

Documents related to general administration, Organisational Structure, Rules,  etc

Sale of tickets, unsold tickets, Printing of tickets, Distribution of tickets, Prize structure,

Lottery Draws, Publication of results, 

Prize and Agents Prize distribution, Income tax, Revenue collection, Profit and Loss details, Unclaimed Prizes,.

The Director of Small savings and lotteries are not the custodian of the information pertaining to temple, and treating that the information may be available with such Mamalatdar, they have rightly transferred to him.

Grounds for Appeal:  i)The fact to be determined in this issue is "Who is the custodian of that information" ? 

ii)Mamalatdar has not stated that information is not available with him but stated that Temple is not a public authority, when the RTI Application was not made to the temple but Mamlatdar.

iii)If the application is made to temple directly, then they can ignore the application stating that they are not public authority.

iv)But in this case, Mamalat dar is denying information stating that Temple is not a public authority, ignoring the fact of the custodian of the so called information and not stated that the information is not available with him but stated that Temple is not a public authority.

v)Even when temple is not a public authority, that information available with any Public Authority regarding such temple are Public record with that public authority.  A document filed and in custody of a public authority in performing of their functions is a public document.

vi)Hence the denial of information stating that temple is not a public authority is not proper, when that information is not stated as not available with him as public record.   Mamalatdar must provide all the information on temple available with him as public record though it belongs to a private citizen or non public entity.

Prayer: Please direct Mamalatdar to permit inspection of entire documents related  first and then for providing certified copies of such temple documents available in his custody as public document.

Go for First Appeal on the above grounds to FAA over Mamalatdar (He has not provided FAA details which are mandatory, include this also as grounds for first appeal)

You can also explore possibility of issuing notice under CP Act to temple and file a complaint against temple management for deficiency of service is not providing the valid information.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Prasad GLN

[damodard29]

1 hour ago, Prasad GLN said:

You have solicited following information from a Small savings a Public authority.

"Please provide the certified copies of the following documents related to the loterries as per copy of lottery ticket submitted here 

Documents related to general administration, Organisational Structure, Rules,  etc

Sale of tickets, unsold tickets, Printing of tickets, Distribution of tickets, Prize structure,

Lottery Draws, Publication of results, 

Prize and Agents Prize distribution, Income tax, Revenue collection, Profit and Loss details, Unclaimed Prizes,.

The Director of Small savings and lotteries are not the custodian of the information pertaining to temple, and treating that the information may be available with such Mamalatdar, they have rightly transferred to him.

The fact to be determined in this issue is "Who is the custodian of that information" ? 

Mamalatdar has not stated that information is not available with him but stated that Temple is not a public authority, when the RTI Application was not made to the temple but Mamlatdar.

If the application is made to temple directly, then they can ignore the application stating that they are not public authority.

But in this case, Mamalat dar is denying information stating that Temple is not a public authority, ignoring the fact of the custodian of the so called information and not stated that the information is not available with him but stated that Temple is not a public authority.

Even when temple is not a public authority, that information available with any Public Authority regarding such temple are Public record with that public authority.  A document filed and in custody of a public authority in performing of their functions is a public document.

Hence the denial of information stating that temple is not a public authority is not proper, when that information is not stated as not available with him as public record.   Mamalatdar must provide all the information on temple available with him as public record though it belongs to a private citizen or non public entity.

Go for First Appeal on the above grounds to FAA over Mamalatdar (He has not provided FAA details which are mandatory, include this also as grounds for first appeal)

You can also explore possibility of issuing notice under CP Act to temple and file a complaint against temple management for deficiency of service is not providing the valid information.

Sir,

Please help me to know more clarity on CP act of temple, to file a complaint.

Please help me to supply the content for first Appeal to be drafted under FAA, 

Thank you, 

Damodar Divkar.

 

[Prasad GLN]

 

The grounds for appeal duly numbered as i to vi and prayer was incorporated in the earlier reply.

In CP Act, there are two important issues involved.

1.You have to pay some kind of fee, consideration for availing a service/purchase a product. and must have promised or paid that consideration to opposite party.

2.The opposite party after receiving such consideration must have failed to perform his part of obligation that amounts to either negligence or deficiency of service and thus the complainant was deprived of the service assured by OP.

3.Then one has to approach to District forum stating as to what service was expected by complainant, what are the services provided generally by OP, what and when consideration was paid, how and when the OP failed to perform his obligation (deficiency of service), when a notice was issued showing such deficiency to OP, what was the reply by OP and what was required as remedy from OP by complainant.

In a forum dedicated to RTI, members are not supposed to expect secretarial services pertaining to all acts but has to expect only precise guidance.

 

Please do not quote all the replies as you are consuming most of the space for simple reply through the quotes.  The reply at the maximum should be in three or four meaningful sentences and it is not possible to write essays and make it a booklet.  Respect members time and levels of their patience.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Prasad GLN

[Sunil Ahya]

Kindly file a first appeal on the ground that, in accordance with the provision of section 2(f) of the RTI Act, 2005 the PIO ought to have accessed the information from a private body and provided the same to the RTI Applicant.

Draft your first appeal by referring to the decision of the Delhi High Court in Telecom Regulatory Authority Of ... vs Kabir Shankar Bose. The said Delhi HC decision is attached herewith this post.

TRAI_..._vs_Kabir_Shankar_Bose_on_20_November,_2018.PDF

[sidereal29]

On 8/12/2020 at 10:08 PM, Prasad GLN said:

 

The grounds for appeal duly numbered as i to vi and prayer was incorporated in the earlier reply.

In CP Act, there are two important issues involved.

1.You have to pay some kind of fee, consideration for availing a service/purchase a product. and must have promised or paid that consideration to opposite party.

2.The opposite party after receiving such consideration must have failed to perform his part of obligation that amounts to either negligence or deficiency of service and thus the complainant was deprived of the service assured by OP.

3.Then one has to approach to District forum stating as to what service was expected by complainant, what are the services provided generally by OP, what and when consideration was paid, how and when the OP failed to perform his obligation (deficiency of service), when a notice was issued showing such deficiency to OP, what was the reply by OP and what was required as remedy from OP by complainant.

In a forum dedicated to RTI, members are not supposed to expect secretarial services pertaining to all acts but has to expect only precise guidance.

 

Please do not quote all the replies as you are consuming most of the space for simple reply through the quotes.  The reply at the maximum should be in three or four meaningful sentences and it is not possible to write essays and make it a booklet.  Respect members time and levels of their patience.

Sir,

I have submitted the First Appeal to the Appellate Authority to dycollector at Mormugao Goa.

However Department of Consumer Affairs has disposed  my grievance stating lottery is not an product and its purchased for profit gains and its not covered under consumer protection act.

[Prasad GLN]

When there is a problem, by bringing attention to several authorities with ultimate focus to get information we address such letters.  The following was the guidance and no advice was given to file grievance in consumer affairs pgrms portal.  (as temple management may not be well versed, they my blur out is the hope)

"You can also explore possibility of issuing notice under CP Act to temple and file a complaint against temple management for deficiency of service is not providing the valid information."

[damodard29]

On 8/12/2020 at 6:27 PM, Prasad GLN said:

You have solicited following information from a Small savings a Public authority.

"Please provide the certified copies of the following documents related to the loterries as per copy of lottery ticket submitted here 

Documents related to general administration, Organisational Structure, Rules,  etc

Sale of tickets, unsold tickets, Printing of tickets, Distribution of tickets, Prize structure,

Lottery Draws, Publication of results, 

Prize and Agents Prize distribution, Income tax, Revenue collection, Profit and Loss details, Unclaimed Prizes,.

The Director of Small savings and lotteries are not the custodian of the information pertaining to temple, and treating that the information may be available with such Mamalatdar, they have rightly transferred to him.

Grounds for Appeal:  i)The fact to be determined in this issue is "Who is the custodian of that information" ? 

ii)Mamalatdar has not stated that information is not available with him but stated that Temple is not a public authority, when the RTI Application was not made to the temple but Mamlatdar.

iii)If the application is made to temple directly, then they can ignore the application stating that they are not public authority.

iv)But in this case, Mamalat dar is denying information stating that Temple is not a public authority, ignoring the fact of the custodian of the so called information and not stated that the information is not available with him but stated that Temple is not a public authority.

v)Even when temple is not a public authority, that information available with any Public Authority regarding such temple are Public record with that public authority.  A document filed and in custody of a public authority in performing of their functions is a public document.

vi)Hence the denial of information stating that temple is not a public authority is not proper, when that information is not stated as not available with him as public record.   Mamalatdar must provide all the information on temple available with him as public record though it belongs to a private citizen or non public entity.

Prayer: Please direct Mamalatdar to permit inspection of entire documents related  first and then for providing certified copies of such temple documents available in his custody as public document.

Go for First Appeal on the above grounds to FAA over Mamalatdar (He has not provided FAA details which are mandatory, include this also as grounds for first appeal)

You can also explore possibility of issuing notice under CP Act to temple and file a complaint against temple management for deficiency of service is not providing the valid information.

Sir,

I have received the notice from Dy Collector FAA , to be present for hearing on 15/9/2020 against the submission of first appeal with above content , please help to advise, to submit the reply need to be applied towards the notice received!

thank you,

Damodar S Divkar.

[Prasad GLN]

During First Appeal Hearing, you can not raise any fresh grounds - Adhere to the Grounds submitted in the First Appeal and establish larger public interest as to how the Temple in the name of lottery has collected such amounts from public.   Conducting a lottery is a commercial activity and not connected with devotional aspect.

[Sunil Ahya]

Please peruse an earlier thread on the same subject on the following link:

I have been Called for a hearing what to do?

[damodard29]

Today the hearing which was posted from 15/9/2020 to 7/10/2020 .,

its said in the order by deputy collector that the information of temple is not available with the Mamletdar/PIO hence it cannot be obtained, now as per the rule Temple is with in the jurisdiction of Mormugao which false under the authority of mamletdar even though the information is not available with mamletdar is surprising thing.,

Sir, I request for your good assistance to help me with the content to be placed before State Information commission about this.,

thank you,

Damodar Divkar.,

 

[Prasad GLN]

You are a regular member with 184 posts and practically grass root level activist.  Continue the same grounds showing different earlier reasons for denying information.  Once the information is not available , SIC can not do any thing.  If you recall the earlier lengthy posts, the first issue is who should issue such permission for such lottery..who is running the lottery is not relevant.

If the lottery is illegal and unauthorised , the authorities should probe into such illegal activity, when they had such knowledge on illegal lottery.

[damodard29]

On 8/2/2020 at 12:47 PM, damodard29 said:

I had purchase the lottery from one temple management last year in Goa, which draw never happened hence I have requested the information to Government of Goa /directorate of small savings and lotteries 

Please provide the certified copies of the following documents related to the loterries as per copy of lottery ticket submitted here 

Documents related to general administration, Organisational Structure, Rules,  etc

Sale of tickets, unsold tickets, Printing of tickets, Distribution of tickets, Prize structure,

Lottery Draws, Publication of results, 

Prize and Agents Prize distribution, Income tax, Revenue collection, Profit and Loss details, Unclaimed Prizes,.

Now the Above lottery authority has transferred my RTI application to Mamletdar of my constituency stating he is the main administration for the temple in my constituency!

Please help me with details on above with your good support since all the information seeked by me has been transferred to the Mamletdar Authority!

 

 

On 8/2/2020 at 6:27 PM, Prasad GLN said:

The first question is as to whether the Lottery is having such permissions/approvals/sanctions etc.

Now that they have identified public authority, as the process has already started, wait for their response.

Depending on their response you can go for first appeal if possible.

It is still doubtful whether endowments/temples are Public authority or not.

You ought to have asked whether the temple is having such permissions to conduct such lotteries and entire set of documents submitted by them temple authorities while seeking permission if any for conducting such lottery and approvals with such conditions by authorities.

Sir, deputy collector has ordered the investigation by submitting Memorandum to Mamletdar 

[Prasad GLN]

Do not be mislead as it appears to be a formal letter to pass on the ball to some other's court as a formality.

Please make a deep study as to who has to permit for such lotteries, whether a temple management's Bye laws stated conducting such lotteries for raising of funds, how many tickets were sold and in which separate account the funds have been deposited, who will control the transaction  and how it were utilized etc require deep probe, and it is beyond Mamaltdar competence.  The authority that has to control over temple management must have a role to play like Endowments and conducting lottery ticket is not usual religious practice and gambling is against Hindu religious practice and one in seven sins in Hinduism. 

Your duty is to write to Mamalatdar requesting him  to involve you during such investigation/inquiry and provide basic facts and ask mamlatdar to collect information from Temple Management as per your RTI Application and in the case of primafacie evidence, ask him to refer the matter to Crime Branch or white collar crimes.

When you have traveled and covered a lot of distance on this issue, do not let the last lap miss the focus for reaching a destination of justice.

[spacebreeze]

Thanks for the information.