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nukebomb

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nukebomb

dear frends

i asked one query related to injustce by my boss in my department . PIO returned my application saying RTI is not a plate form for staff grivances redressal . I asked the same querry throuugh one of my frends he got reply that you can not ask about other persons .WHAT CAN I DO NOW

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karira

Can you please share the both the RTI Applications ?

If you wish, you can delete or blank out (xxxxxxxxxx) the details you do not want to share like names , etc.

Please also mention the date of the two applications and if there is time enough to file First Appeal. (30 days from receipt of reply).

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nukebomb

DEAR SIR

it was about my TA bills. I travalled in hired taxi and my immediate boss approved it but my executive engineer rejected it without giving any reasons . i asked under what rule my TA is rejected . PIO returned my application saying staff grivences does not cover under RTI.

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colnrkurup

I think your Executive Engineer has rejected under his descretionary powers. It is at his descretion to allow you to travel by hired taxi causing more expenditure to the state when other convenient public transport of your entitled class would suffice. You are fighting a loosing battle. Should you ?

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karira
DEAR SIR

it was about my TA bills. I travalled in hired taxi and my immediate boss approved it but my executive engineer rejected it without giving any reasons . i asked under what rule my TA is rejected . PIO returned my application saying staff grivences does not cover under RTI.

 

I think your Executive Engineer has rejected under his descretionary powers. It is at his descretion to allow you to travel by hired taxi causing more expenditure to the state when other convenient public transport of your entitled class would suffice. You are fighting a loosing battle. Should you ?

 

If we look at this only from the RTI aspect, then the PIO has to either deal with the applications per Sec 7 or deny information as per Sec 8 or 9. There is no other option he has.

In any of these sections, there is no such thing as "staff grievances are not covered under RTI" . Therefore go in for First Appeal.

 

In fact, just visit CIC and randomly look at the orders/decisions. I have been reading almost all decisions of CIC and nearly 50% of decisions of SIC (which are available on the web) since June 2007. Although I have never counted, but I am reasonably sure that more than 70% pertain to staff grievances.

 

However, I am not a specialist in Government rules Regulations so please also have a look at colnrkurup's post quoted above.

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nukebomb

dear sir . taxi is my entitlement . i got copy of my entitlement through RTI. truth is Mty executive says he will not allow me.

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nukebomb
I think your Executive Engineer has rejected under his descretionary powers. It is at his descretion to allow you to travel by hired taxi causing more expenditure to the state when other convenient public transport of your entitled class would suffice. You are fighting a loosing battle. Should you ?
dear sir plz call me zero nine four two three five eight eight eight eight seven
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colnrkurup

If you are a Central/State government Employee, I suggest better you go through the Travel Regulation again. I don't think it allow you to travel in Taxi automatically when public transport of your entitled class is available. There is a provision to travel in taxi and limitting your claim to the rate of TA admissible for the public conveyance. Kindly check it again.

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nukebomb

respected kurup sir .

rule is very clear sir . it says travel between stations not connected by rail , executive officer can travel in taxi . it further says there is no need to take prior approval for travelling in entitlled mode of convayence . permission is required only for travelling in higher than entitlled class.

I got the copy of this ruling throught RTI from O/o Chief general manager .

Now the executive engineer who wants his staff to prepare contractors bills without visiting and without mentioning any defect in work , creating this sort of problem.

plz tel me can any officer refuse to honor rules?

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colnrkurup

There is no doubt that all have to abide by rules. If I remember, one can travel by taxi only when there is no public convenyance of any type Kindly remeber one thing Our present bureaucracy which is hand it down of British give lot of descretionary powers to the superior higher officials. You may be absolutely right. Some time it will be painful to close eyes But if one has to serve peacefully, it is always better to be tactful Anywy this being not an RTI subject I am leaving it at that..

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K.R.Chandrasekaran.

Dear Sir,

A person in service is bound by the rules of the organisation which invariably provides for redressal of grievances through Appeal to higher ups. I believe that RTI act is for persons outside the organisation who has no legal rights to get information other than the RTI act.

chandrasekaran.

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colnrkurup

You are absolutely right. This exactly was my view. But there were stong opposition to this concept from the younger generation. They claim that fundamental rights are equally applicable to government servants also. Majority of RTI cases pending with CIC/SICs pertain to government servants. I do not wish to discuss this topic further due to generation gap , change of concept of human values and change of mutual relation within the department. Anyway I stopped pressing that issue because I retired 20 years back and not aware of the current state of affairs.If you go through old posts of this forum you can have a feel of the new trend. I believe that the generation younger to me is more wise and well informed than me.

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nukebomb

all sirs . I got a reply to my RTI querry that i am entoitlled to travel in taxi . my boss saying keep rti in your pocket .

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opsharma

Question is not whether Khan got his taxi fare or not,it is whether evoking RTI was the only avenue? Was it the last resort? Did he exhaust all other internal avenues available to him? Did he even attempt to resort to internal departmental actions/discussions/grievances resolving route.

It requires a serious discussion :At What Stage a Citizen Should Resort to RTI Route?

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colnrkurup

In my personal opinion government servants should be able to get their service problems remedied and satisfied with departmental procedure. There is a very excellent procedure exist. Using RTI arise only when mutal relations are spoiled and reached a stage of confrontation. For Eg.if a government servant want to see his leave account he could be able to walk into his Estblishment section and see it. But I have seen that people are resorting to RTI Act even for this. Basially so long as the man-management system is satisfacory there should not be any reason for a government servant to resort to RTI though they are fully entitled as per the Act. But when one resort to RTI channel straight a way he is entering into confrontation with his superiors making the lives of both miserable. Ultimatly the strongest of the lot wins causing problem to the other and his family.

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slchowdhary

Col Kurup, things are not that simple as you have made it out. Though it greatly varies from office to office. And mainly it depends on the person on the spot.

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opsharma

Please,I suggest not to address by individual names except for thanking or joking or appreciating.

As for things being not that simple, it is a matter of perception.

Generally,not always,matters can be solved amicably in majority of cases and offices,provided rigidity and ego are kept aside. Open mind is a great settler and sure medicine for any organisational success.

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sidmis

This is in response to col kurup's post(#16) above.

 

Col. Are you suggesting that seeking information under RTI is akin to confrontation with the establishment?

 

Just by seeking information in a written format is no way construed to confronting the Establishment.

 

But majority of bureaucracy thinks in that way. Once you start citing/using RTI, even a friendly officer becomes agitated, aggressive, uncommunicative and hostile.

 

And if that is the case then so it be. We should confront/play them with our Ten Rupee Missiles.

 

Sidharth

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nukebomb

all respected members. i am very thankful to you all .i am fool enough to steighth way go to RTI . i made an humble request as per proper channel . then i made an request to AO. then I went to Staff grievances cell where i got reply that since your controlling officer is not allowing your TA claims rules cant be implemented in your case.then i asked through rti to circle office where i got reply that officer of my rank and cadre are entitled to travel in taxi . i submotted that letter to my boss who said keep RTI in your pocket.

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The Great

Col.Sir, In the state govt. office,in establishment section, it very difficult to verify ones own data. Hence after a normal request, if an employee could not get it , he should resort to the present Act.

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maneesh
In my personal opinion government servants should be able to get their service problems remedied and satisfied with departmental procedure. There is a very excellent procedure exist. Using RTI arise only when mutal relations are spoiled and reached a stage of confrontation. For Eg.if a government servant want to see his leave account he could be able to walk into his Estblishment section and see it. But I have seen that people are resorting to RTI Act even for this. Basically so long as the man-management system is satisfactory there should not be any reason for a government servant to resort to RTI though they are fully entitled as per the Act. But when one resort to RTI channel straight a way he is entering into confrontation with his superiors making the lives of both miserable. Ultimately the strongest of the lot wins causing problem to the other and his family.

 

IT is a matter of fact that in Govt office the human resource and management is very poor. Govt is all going for liberalization but management within has not changed with the same pace. It appears some serious thought needs to be given to ensure that the services are professionally managed.

 

I will give one simple instance in Central Govt Services for all those provident fund is maintain by Govt, with every transfer one has to get a new account no at new place and then ensure that all balances are properly accounted.

There is an urgent need to improve management within as well

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opsharma
This is in response to col kurup's post(#16) above.

 

Col. Are you suggesting that seeking information under RTI is akin to confrontation with the establishment?

 

Just by seeking information in a written format is no way construed to confronting the Establishment.

 

But majority of bureaucracy thinks in that way. Once you start citing/using RTI, even a friendly officer becomes agitated, aggressive, uncommunicative and hostile.

 

And if that is the case then so it be. We should confront/play them with our Ten Rupee Missiles.

 

Sidharth

 

 

The remarks above are based on out of context quoting of remarks at post 16(col's).Comments at post 16 are very clear ,if all other internal avenues are exhausted then by all means fight through RTI.But dont use RTI as a matter of routine because then we will lose the power of RTI.

 

Majority of officers and others in govt related offices are hostile because of fear of unknown and exposure of their misdeeds.That does not mean we should be equally hostile in our thinking and dealing with them.Use of socalled bravado of ten rupee missile will hit no one in the long run but poor citizens genuinely seeking info through RTI.

There is no doubt that management of data in Govt organisations is generaly poor and there is tremendous resistance for any change,computerisation is still some distance away for reasons of losing power and may be jobs.

By the way , maintaining only one PF account no. irrespective of transfers has been under serious consideration for sometime now and should be implemented soon.

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colnrkurup

Thank you Mr.OP Sharma. I don't think I would be able to explain my position more clearly than what you did. Thank you once again.

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