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Social Audit of Decisions of CIC


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"While dealing with this RTI application, one gets the feeling that it is not

a serious enquiry for information of any significant public interest."

 

It seems frequent visit by same PIO of PAs, familiarizes with IC & affects the decision.

 

It also seems the decision of ICs are whimsical in nature. They never maintain a standard of their decisions set by the Act.

 

In the following decision, his colleagues Honb'le IC ML, IC SS & IC AD have clarified that appellant need not to establish "Public Interest" unless exempted u/s 8(1).

 

 

http://www.rti.india.gov.in/cic_decisions/CIC_AD_A_2012_000570_M_110032.pdf

 

56. The respondent’s counsel has tenaciously argued that the appellant’s request for

information is not in public interest and that he is seeking this information for extraneous

considerations. The question is whether information is disclosable under the RTI Act only in

public interest and not otherwise. Suffice to say that RTI Act does not draw a distinction between

demand for information in public interest and private interest. The Act provides for disclosure of

information to the citizens of India subject to the provisions of section 8, 9, 10 & 11 of the RTI Act.

In other words, appellant is not required to establish any larger public interest in his search for all

classes of information. He is required to establish public interest only in particular clauses of

section 8(1) of the RTI Act. In view of the above, we hold that appellant need not establish public

interest while seeking information for all classes of information.

 

 

Regards

 

R K Mishra

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I am attaching copy of CIC decision on denial of information to heir of deceased bank account holder and my rejoinder to it. This would be useful to other members, who may also react on this portal and also to concerned IC of CIC. In the long run we may be in a position to improve quality of decisions.

HEIR BANK CIC 161013.pdf

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Prasad GLN

I had also similar experience from FAA (HQ) as representative of a Navaratna PSU, representing one RTI Applicant who is 89 year old lady who has filed 146 applications for information for last seven years and still was not provided even a bit of information even after 6 CIC decisions. A personal meeting on 4th Ocst, 13 was arranged ( I do not know the purpose of meeting, without agenda and meeting attended by officials from Chennai, Mumbai, Hyderabad, Vijayawada) and it is a condition for the meeting that no decision can be expected. No written arguments were accepted, minutes submitted by applicant were refused after meeting.

 

The senior citizen lady wanted a certified copy of lease agreement entered by her late son which must be in writing and must be registered as per Transfer of Property Act. This is undoubtedly a public document entered by PSU . AP High Court held that in case of RTI Applicants if any record of any sort is availalble, legal heir certificate should not be a reason for denial. High Court of Madras in another judgment held that lease agreement should not be with held. Inspite of producing all necessary judgments the learned FAA held that she should produce a legal heir certificate (This after exhausting all exemptions, using Sec.7 inspection, Sec.,7 disproportionate diversion clause for form of invention, no larger public interest involved, document held in fiduciary capacity,document can be secured from Registrar's office, certified copies can not be given by PSU, etc., and some other denials invented like inspection was permitted, meeting was arranged, NCDRC dismissed the RP etc.,)

A RTI Application was once again filed before CPIO against FAA decision that applicant should produce legal heir certificate from Competent authority seeking the Section under which legal heir certificate was demanded and who is competent authority that can issue legal heir certificate to mother, effected party, Indian Citizen). The judgments referred and submitted are very clear that as an RTI applicant, Indian Citizen, effected party, as her name was included at several places in PSU records confirmed the relationship. She has not considered any of the pleas and dictated orders that RTI Applicant should produce legal heir certificate from competent authority to secure information on lease entered by her son, lease payments and dues of her husband purported to have been paid by others.

FAA is a lady and heading a Navaratna PSU RTI section in the entire country. What one can say, if FAA considers her decision as final even after perusal of such HC judgments and several CIC decisions that Sec.7 should not be quoted for denial stating that information disproportionately diverts their assets, and denial that there is no larger public interest in providing information to the effected party, a legal heir and Indian Citizen isnpite of full bench judgment. FAA is teaching about stipulations on RTI Act after hearing all the above and even without glancing to various CIC decisions and HC judgments.

The ready made answer is asking a 89 year old lady to Court or once again to CIC.

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I think bringing defects in IC orders may not immediately solve the issue of hat case, but in long run such a movement will have positive effect. Even in repeated defective orders citizen can at least seek removal of concerned IC which may send warning to such ICs who pass orders without proper application of mind. I suggest other members also to take up such social audits.

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I think bringing defects in IC orders may not immediately solve the issue of hat case, but in long run such a movement will have positive effect. Even in repeated defective orders citizen can at least seek removal of concerned IC which may send warning to such ICs who pass orders without proper application of mind. I suggest other members also to take up such social audits.

 

Sec 17 and Sec 14 are about removal of IC in CIC / SIC.

No IC in the CIC can be removed under Sec 17 for "defective orders".

 

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD]a State Information Commissioner, as the case may be,—[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD]a.[/TD]

[TD]is adjudged an insolvent; or[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD]b.[/TD]

[TD]has been convicted of an offence which, in the opinion of the Governor, involves moral turpitude; or[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD]c.[/TD]

[TD]engages during his term of office in any paid employment outside the duties of his office; or[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD]d.[/TD]

[TD]is, in the opinion of the Governor, unfit to continue in office by reason of infirmity of mind or body; or[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD]e.[/TD]

[TD]has acquired such financial or other interest as is likely to affect prejudicially his functions as the State Chief Information Commissioner or a State Information Commissioner.[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

Obviously, the only part which can be used is d. :

 

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD]d.[/TD]

[TD]is, in the opinion of the Governor, unfit to continue in office by reason of infirmity of mind or body; or

 

That means you have to prove that he is physically (body) or mentally (mind) incapable of doing his job.

 

How will you prove that ?

 

Once a IC in his post, it is almost impossible to remove him.

 

The ONLY way is to stop such people from being appointed as ICs by having a transparent and prescribed procedure for appointment.[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

jps50,

 

Please remember that these are people with 30+ years of experience in the system. They are thick skinned and have become immune to criticism and very very hard nuts to crack.

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Large number of defective orders over a period of time may render IC mentally unfit for the job. It all again depends upon inquiry by Supreme Court. However if soul of IC does not speak to justify his salary, at least attempt can be made by citizens to remove him - we may or may not succeed. Many new things have happened in RTI. At times Supreme Court may fill-in gray areas.Since I too was a public servant, I know thickness of their skins!!! Non-the-less let activists should continue with pointing out on record defects in decisions as part of social audit to bring about some [if not 100% or even 50%] improvement in quality of decisions. Many ICs have delivered path breaking decisions [recent political parties under RTI, for one] true to letter and spirit of RTI. However, there are few who are really on post retirement time pass as IC.

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Prasad GLN

Now that DOPT also included RTI disposals and Citizen Charter disposals as Voluntary disclosures under Sec. 4 , members may identify errant PIOs that are troubling genuine applicants and prepare persistent features, and complain to FAA. Now that this work has to be entrusted to outside Auditors, applicants may file applications before PIO asking for the name and address of such Auditors and provide him the copies of such information denied or received asking him to record the consistent failure of CPIO.

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Please refer two attachments and please comment on decision, since I would like to give positive feed back to CIC.

In my opinion IC has selectively quoted part of judgement of Hon'ble HC to suit his conclusion, while excluding all other points and final decision in favour of appellant of CIC appeal [which are against his decision order].

 

I also think that there cannot be any personal information for a govt public authority in a democracy even if it can be legally classified as juristic person. It can have commercial information etc. but not personal one.

LEASE.pdf

PERSONAL INFO 221111 HC IMP.pdf

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Prasad GLN

JPS sir,

Have you attached Madras High Court Judgment that lease agreement is a public document and has to be provided to III party applicant and PIO can not accuse applicant as competitor/opposed to lesse etc. ?

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sharadphadke
Please refer attachments as part of social audit of CIC defective decision.

 

In CIC hearing with IC Manjula Prasher in Punjab National Bank, I was denied information and allowed only Inspection on the basis of CPIO's plea that there are over 10 to 15 lakhs hits per day and the data is huge hence we can not supply as it will divert public resources.

 

IC up hold this and allowed inspection.

 

Mr Dhingra is very lucky as he did got some information. [i don't believe this]

 

I am ashamed to state that we members don't consult each other when asking the same information to some public authority on the same issue.

 

Mr Dhingra is also a senior member and I expect he should have been aware of my ATM work. Joint working would have fetched good information is my feeling. In my ATM posts this is mentioned. [PNB issue]

 

I thing we members must remember our post and help each others than getting no information or less information.

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Prasad GLN

True. Shri Sharad Phadke Saab,

No one in entire country has taken such ordeals and your struggle on ATM is most exemplary without any iota of doubt , particularly at your age.

I do not know whether Forum has a blog on all your contributions, as once I have downloaded from google and came to know of your contribution, after several months after your star rating at this forum.

Young Members. Please do know about the struggle and what Mr.Phadke has done to bring out several unknown technical facts on ATMS. This has become a general burning problem. You can guide several other citizens on this issue. I know several depositors who lost all hopes in our Cityto recover any amounts from Banks on wrong transactions in ATM, as they have not been guided properly at that time. Emulate his example,remembering his age factor, and still he is contantly on move from Pune to several places. He has even defied against Police authorities for booking complaints against cash rich Nationalised Banks.

The Forum must be proud of having such a valiant solder in the TEAM. May God give him more life and strength to guide us all.

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jps50

Dear Phadkerao,

 

Kindly post copy of recent complaint to RBI in the matter of SBI Branches in Gujarat on ATM failed transaction for the benefit of our members in your ATM thread.

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jps50

FAA made appellant to visit his office five times for hearing of first appeal. IC made few advices to FAA, but did not seek explanation for recommending disciplinary action against FAA for such harassment to appellant. I have addressed attached letter dated 15-06-2014. Copy of IC decision is also annexed. Members may kindly comment.

FAA NOT PULLED 150614.pdf

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Prasad GLN

How about filing application before DOPT seeking their rules and regulations, directives against FAA who harass appellants, No. of Complaints received against FAAs, and action proposed to avoid repetition of these violations on the basis of the stated facts.

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harinder dhingra
In CIC hearing with IC Manjula Prasher in Punjab National Bank, I was denied information and allowed only Inspection on the basis of CPIO's plea that there are over 10 to 15 lakhs hits per day and the data is huge hence we can not supply as it will divert public resources.

 

IC up hold this and allowed inspection.

 

Mr Dhingra is very lucky as he did got some information. [i don't believe this]

 

I am ashamed to state that we members don't consult each other when asking the same information to some public authority on the same issue.

 

Mr Dhingra is also a senior member and I expect he should have been aware of my ATM work. Joint working would have fetched good information is my feeling. In my ATM posts this is mentioned. [PNB issue]

 

I thing we members must remember our post and help each others than getting no information or less information.

 

Dear Learned Mr. Sharad Phadke,

 

Looks that there is communication gap.

 

I have replied to learned Sharad Phadke that I am involved in serious issues with local police on the issue of RTI & Human Rights of Gurgaon Police and THATSWHY could not send the information got and shall revert soon.

It is a matter of fact that all my RTI/s are based on feedback provided by Learned Sharad Phadke and owes him immensly on that score or rather learning from him in every sphere of RTI Act implementation.

Sir, Learned Sharad Phadke, there is no issue of working jointly or under your guidance but I am extremly busy with fighting local police in general & Haryana Police in particular.No sooner I am little free, I shall revert to you with whatever information I have received from Bank ( ofcourse courtesy your efforts)

 

Sorry for any inconvenience caused to you.

 

harinder dhingra

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sharadphadke

Each and every member has to tackle the issue as he find it fit. I am not saying you should work under me or jointly. My only point is if you know some one is working on this, how is CPIO and have you got information. This helps in reducing the work. Any way this is past and let it be there only. Please let us not make this as issue. I have no issue nor I am angry.

Wish you good luck in your fight with police and I am with you for any help which I can render from my side.

Keep PNB at back and look only to Haryana Police. Ones you are free we will discuss the matter of exchanging the material we got. I will be uploading it on scribe.

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Prasad GLN

Both are eminent RTI Activists, and tackled the issues individually in their own way. The forum owes for their contribution and sharing their concerns and all members are supporters and should also contribute and play active role, in solving their issues, as these people take everything only in the interest of larger public interest.

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Yogi M. P. Singh

Defective decision of information commissions must be subjected to public scrutiny.

 

Sent from RTI INDIA Mobile App

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harinder dhingra

Hon'ble Learned Yogi M P Singh,

 

Agree with you cent per cent.

 

After a long time finding you on this site. Hope everything is Okay at your end.

 

Cheers

 

harinder dhingra

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